Kim Seeling Smith: Why Gen Z Could Save the Future of Work

Automatically transcribed, so there may be the odd slip.

Alastair GreenerHello, and welcome to the Alastair Greener Generationally Speaking podcast, where we look at bridging the generation gap by debunking myths, tackling stereotypes, and sharing practical tips on how we can build stronger intergenerational connections. And today I'm really excited to have a very special guest. Special because not only because we first met about 18 months ago in Ireland, but she is actually at the other side of the world as we're recording this, because she's in, uh, Australia, and I believe on the Gold Coast. Um, she's just up from-

Kim Seeling SmithOh, no, further north.

Alastair GreenerFurther north than that? Anyway-

Kim Seeling SmithYes, much further than that

Alastair Greener... well, let's say hello to Kim, Kim Ceiling-Smith, who is a business futurist who helps organizations thrive in the era of AI and the polycrisis. Welcome, Kim Ceiling-Smith. It's so-

Kim Seeling SmithThank you so much

Alastair Greener... I'm so excited that you're here on the podcast because, um, I've, I've, I wanted to get you so much earlier, and it's great that you're here.

Kim Seeling SmithI'm really excited to be here. Thank you for asking. I've been looking forward to this conversation actually.

Alastair GreenerWell, one of the b- the big things we, we always start with, um, people themselves, how they accept their generation, whether they actually associate themselves with their generation or distance themselves, and we will say that you're a boomer, but just a boomer. Uh, so how do you relate to some of the traits that are attributed to boomers?

Kim Seeling SmithWell, I know, you know, you and I were just talking about this, and, um, one of the traits of traditional boomers, and I will say that I, I may take exception to this, because one of the traits of traditional boomers is that they, they are perceived to be a bit hesitant around technology. Now, my take on that is that that may have been true earlier in their lives, but as they have aged, they have embraced technology more. And I think partially that's because they are less focused on, you know, they've already, they've already achieved what they want to achieve in life, and they have some extra time, or they, they feel like they don't want to be left behind, or, um, it's so much more accessible with, like, with AI. Me personally, I have always been obsessed with technology. I was a double major in university, uh, with accounting and computer science. I was terrible at both fields, uh, but they, they both gave me some great grounding, and now one of my specialties is AI. So even as a boomer, I am leading the charge, um, in AI. And I, I just love it when people in their 40s and, and early 50s say, "I can't use AI. I'm far too old." Oh, please.

Alastair Greener[laughs]

Kim Seeling Smith[laughs].

Alastair GreenerAnd, and anybody who's, uh, listening carefully will realize, hang on a second. Yes, I'm talking to you from Australia, but you're not Australian. G- give us an-

Kim Seeling SmithI am not Australian

Alastair Greener... a little bit of a brief background to yourself.

Kim Seeling SmithMm-hmm. Yeah. Well, as I said, I was trained as an accountant and a, um, and a computer programmer. I was terrible at both, and luckily, uh, I fell into recruitment in the United States where my accent is from. Fell into recruitment, and I spent 15 years in recruitment. Growing up in the US, I had always wanted to live overseas, so recruitment was a great way to get overseas, and was working for a multinational, Robert Half and Accountemps. Um, lots of the listeners will know those names. They're global, uh, brand names. And they transferred me over first to New Zealand, and then I love New Zealand, but it was far too cold for me. I'm a warm weather girl, which is why I live in North Queensland. So I moved to Australia. So now I am the proud holder of three passports. I'm a Kiwi, an Aussie, and a, uh, US citizen as well. So, but the accent, for some reason, never goes away, even though I've been here for 23 years. [laughs]

Alastair GreenerAnd it's really interesting that that whole thing, there's been a lot of research about accents, and if you're over a certain age, when you, um, you develop-

Kim Seeling SmithYeah

Alastair Greener... when you go to new countries, you don't tend to pick up the accent, but that's another story. Can you just tell us a little bit about your, your background growing up in the, in the United States as a-

Kim Seeling SmithMm-hmm

Alastair Greener... just boomer? What, what was that like? What was the environment like? Would you say that was fairly, um, typical of boomers of, of the era?

Kim Seeling SmithOh, I think so, yes. I grew up in farm country in Wisconsin, so my parents weren't farmers, but we lived literally in the middle of a farm. We had two acres and a very old farmhouse. Uh, my father was a lawyer. He worked in town. Uh, my, my mum actually, uh, worked as well as taking care of my sister and I. I have a sister who's 10 years younger than I am. Um, so my, my, my parents both worked, but my mother always made sure that she was home when I got home. Um, so I wasn't, you know, the, the Gen X latchkey kid. I was definitely not that. My parents were very involved, sometimes a little bit too involved, uh, very involved in my life. Uh, looking back, it was really an idyllic childhood. I, I, you know, the, the farm community that I grew up in was, uh, was very close to a bedroom community for Milwaukee. So Milwaukee wasn't that far away, so we got the big city, and, um, went to a very progressive school. I had an excellent education. It was, it was really an idyllic childhood, w- you know, relatively speaking.

Alastair GreenerAnd isn't it interesting how what you experience as a child you tend to then almost reflect and go back to when you get later in life, because I, I have to tell our listeners that, um, I've seen your posts all about your, your, your vegetable growing and, uh-

Kim Seeling SmithYes

Alastair Greener... the planting. And obviously you've just survived those terrible floods up there in, in North Queensland as well. Um, so, you know, but-

Kim Seeling SmithTwo meters of rain, yes.

Alastair GreenerBut, but it's gone full circle for you that you're back-

Kim Seeling SmithYeah

Alastair Greener... you know, on the land.

Kim Seeling SmithYes. Uh, yes, and that was always... Well, I shouldn't say always the intention, because when I was growing up in the country, I really disliked living in the country, um, because it was so far away from everything. And then I, and then when I was able to drive, it was much better. But I-Um, I would say probably somewhere around my 40s maybe I decided that at some point in time I would get back to the land. So yes, I have an acre of land, which is enough to say that you have land, but not too much to take care of. And I've got fruit trees and a huge veggie patch. Um, and we're doing some landscaping, so it's, it's really nice. We, we live off-grid. We, or can live off grid. We have a solar battery. We have our own water. Um, so yeah, we're, we're completely self-sufficient if we need to be, which is great. I love, I love this lifestyle.

Alastair GreenerI don't know if you ever got to see a, a TV show that from the UK called The Good Life, which was in the 1970s-

Kim Seeling SmithNo

Alastair Greener... and it was all about people, but these were urban people trying to be self-sus- self-sustaining. So it was, it was a great bit of fun. So it's quite a lot of people of our generation go back to that almost, and, and almost see it, see it nostalgically as, as an, as an aim to, to be completely self-sufficient.

Kim Seeling SmithYes. Yes. Interesting. Yeah.

Alastair GreenerBut coming to your, your international element-

Kim Seeling SmithMm-hmm

Alastair Greener... what have you observed between generations, you know, looking back at home, um, back in, in the US, although home is now for you very much Australia.

Kim Seeling SmithMm. Very much, yeah.

Alastair GreenerI, I have this thing called the five circuits of generational influence, where I talk about where you are brought up will have a big impact on the way that you are shaped in your life. What differences do you see between the two, between all three countries, New Zealand as well, for that matter, um, when it comes to generational thinking and how that impacts people? I sus- I suspect it's a little bit less different now than it was because we're such a global world, but certainly for your generation, do you see any differences?

Kim Seeling SmithI'm, uh, I, I'm not sure I do. If, if I do, they're very subtle. Um, uh, a- and, and I, I really, honestly, I haven't thought about that, but I'm not sure that I do see a lot of differences between the countries.

Alastair GreenerOkay. That's really, that, that is interesting because sometimes, you know, it can be, I mean, for example, if you look at during the COVID pandemic, you know, Australia was probably one of the most locked down countries compared-

Kim Seeling SmithNo doubt. Yeah

Alastair Greener... to say parts of the US where certainly if you were in certain states in the US, it was virtually no lockdown.

Kim Seeling SmithYeah.

Alastair GreenerDo you think that's had a lasting impact on the psyche of Australians versus Americans?

Kim Seeling SmithI know it has. I absolutely know it has. Especially in Victoria. Melbourne was the la- th- was the most locked down city in the world. And they are still, they're still living through this collective trauma. Um, and it, it, it is a topic of conversation in Melbourne not infrequently, even five years past COVID. Uh, the Victorian, you know, the Vic- Victorian government made those lockdown decisions. The government is no longer in power. Eh, you know, every, I think every state, eh, in Australia has turned over from the incumbent party to the other party, just like so many countries in the world have done that, um, i- in part as a backlash against, uh, the COVID restrictions or non-restrictions as, as they may be. Um, and the Victorian economy i- has suffered as a result of that. The Australian economy as a whole, uh, has suffered less. Um, one of the reasons that I'm quite grateful to live in Australia is, um, you know, politicians are politicians are politicians, and they all have their foibles and they all have their, their problems. But from a fiscal responsibility standpoint, I actually think that Australia has done a really good job, um, through the global financial crisis, through COVID, um, where, you know, I just heard an economist speak, and he was downright jubilant for an economist. He actually said that he was cautiously optimistic, which I don't know if you know many economists, but that's jubilant. [laughs] From the ones that I know. Um, so yes, there are, there are very definitely differences in the psyche. Australia is actually one of the most burned out, uh, countries in the world and has been for a very long time. Now, going back to your previous question, that is one of the differences, and I've just thought of this, that is one of the differences in generations, um, uh, between Australia, our younger generation, so the, the millennials and n- now the Gen Zs that are entering the workforce are, um, w- uh, according to, it's not the World Happiness Report because they didn't have an Australian pullout, but something that I read recently, um, the, the two youngest generations in our workforce, a- uh, in Australia especially, are, are two of the generations that are really, really having a tough time, uh, with mental fitness, with loneliness. You know, everybody loves hybrid work, and I'm a huge proponent of hybrid work, but it has a cost. And that cost is loneliness. And, and I think that it has affected Australians more so than, than, um, some other countries, is the sense that I get.

Alastair GreenerAnd i- and it's... I, I like the, the fact that you refer there to the impact of hybrid working, because I know you talk a lot about that in your work-

Kim Seeling SmithMm-hmm. Yeah

Alastair Greener... as in, in terms of the future of work. So you're seeing the trends of these new generations coming through and this... Something that people suggest is that there's a demonization towards the younger generations because they don't get them. They don't understand the stresses-

Kim Seeling SmithYeah. Yeah

Alastair Greener... and, and the mental health challenges that they have. What are you seeing i- in, in that arena?

Kim Seeling SmithFascinating. There was an article in the Sydney Morning Herald last week that talked about, um, how a lot of the Gen Zs are being let go, uh, because of their lack of resilience, their, um, their...... not wanting to follow hierarchy, and the pushback. You know, they're not afraid to come forward. Um, they, they will not respond to hierarchical demands. They will not respond to the old way of, of leadership, and so they're being let go. And it's a real shame because I think that the Gen Zeds have something, um, really fundamentally valuable to offer. The problem is the people from our generation and some of the Xers who are unwilling or unable to accept new ideas. In fact, I'm writing a blog post, I'm writing a, a LinkedIn article, actually, um, that I'm calling Shift or Get Off the Pot, and I'm talking about paradigm shifts. [laughs] You like that title? [laughs]

Alastair GreenerI love it. Love it. [laughs]

Kim Seeling SmithAnd I'm talking about paradigm shifts and how-

Alastair GreenerAnd I noticed how carefully you said it as well.

Kim Seeling SmithYes. [laughs] Exactly.

Alastair Greener[laughs]

Kim Seeling SmithYes, there is an F in that. Uh, there is an F in that word. Um, and I, I really think that this is our biggest... Our biggest challenge and our biggest opportunity is the recognition that the world has changed, it is not going back to what it was, nor should it, and that we need to accept that what made us successful, what got us to where we are now, will not necessarily get us to where we're going. As a matter of fact, the, the 28th annual PwC, uh, global CEO survey talks about this. 42% of global CEOs do not think that their companies are going to be viable over the next 10 years unless they reinvent themselves. And the, the title of the report is Reinvention on the Edge of Tomorrow. So it's that ability to think differently. So it's not... I, I don't... I, I, I think that, I think that there are some challenges with the Gen Xes and the... Sorry. With the, um, with the Millennials and the Gen Zeds, in that, um, you know, they just grew up differently, and so they, they haven't flexed that resilience muscle as much as we have. Part of it is life experience. We hadn't flexed that resilience muscle when we were their age either. Um, but you know, hindsight is always 20/20. And, a- a- a- and, and part of it is the fact that they truly are redefining our relationship with work, which let's face it, it needs to be redefined. It really does. So I think that these CEOs, these senior leaders are really missing the point when they dismiss, literally and figuratively, when they dismiss the, um, the Millennials and, and the Gen Zeds that are, are really expecting different things from the w- workplace. I think that... I, I really hope, and, and I, I feel positively, um, that they will prevail, because th- they are... There are a lot of them, and they are going to be taking over very, very soon. I just hope that they're not indoctrinated into the old school way of thinking, and I don't think that they will be. I don't think that they can be, because the world is changing so much and moving so fast.

Alastair GreenerI mean, th- this is fantastic stuff, and, and I've heard you talk about this a lot. I know this is your absolute specialty-

Kim Seeling SmithYeah

Alastair Greener... when it comes to future of the workplace. What kind of tips, without giving too much away, um, in the short time we have, but what kind of tips, uh, uh, and theories are you sharing with organizations to help them bridge that gap? Because it is a big, big gap that they're having to, to deal with. So what are sort of... What are some of the things that an organization can do to be effective in really making the most of these younger generations?

Kim Seeling SmithWell, I think i- it, it stems back to the old way of leading versus the new way of leading, and, and we've had these conversations. We had them over a drink in Ireland, as I recall.

Alastair Greener[laughs]

Kim Seeling SmithUm, w- where, you know, the, the, the way that we used to lead people... Well, let's face it, we didn't lead them, we managed them. And, e- the, the new way of leading people needs to be much more humanistic and much more collaborative, co-creative, and they, they need to listen more and talk less. The number one thing, and this is something that I have been teaching for 15 years, I wrote a book about it called Mind Reading for Managers, the number one thing that managers can do, and Gallup says that this is the number one thing that will help make them effective, is to sit down and have one-on-one conversations with them, and, and talk about not, not only business as usual and their goals or KPIs, and not only a cursory, "How are you doing?", but talk to them about things that really matter to them. Things like having the agency, control, and choice to control their own destiny. The, the ability to work hybrid. Um, having... Th- You know, having a voice, being able to freely tell, in a respectful manner, but freely tell the powers that be what's working, what's not working, and, and what ideas they might have. Um, I've actually identified nine of these. I call them the nine currencies of choice. And sitting down and having conversations with your teams about these nine currencies of choice, I know from direct experience with my clients, will increase employee engagement, increase employee retention, motivation, productivity, performance. And, y- you know, it doesn't have to cost any money. It just costs some of your time. So, I would say that that's the biggest paradigm shift, is don't think of people as resources or capital. Um, think of people as, as human beings who, who need some love and attention and some caring in order to, to get the best out of them. A- and i- it's gotta be a, a real partnership. Um, you know, I like to say that if they trust and respect you as the manager, and they feel like you have their best interests in mind almost to the point where you want them to succeed almost as much as they do, then they will come to the party, and they'll want you to succeed, they'll want the team to succeed, they'll want the organization to succeed. So, all it takes is conversations about the right things.

Alastair GreenerYou talk about conversations. What about the Millennials and Gen Z? Do you think there's anything that they can do to, to somehow bridge that gap?

Kim Seeling SmithUm, yes. When I, when I actually teach this program within organizations, I, um, I recognize the elephant in the room, which is that some of their managers will not wanna have these one-on-one conversations. So I empower them to drive the conversations, to put time in their managers' diaries, and to hold their managers accountable for having these conversations. And then, to even use the framework, um, to, to drive the conversation. So, uh, y- you know, one of the paradigms that we're shaking off is, and it's, it's a belief that has not been true for a very long time, but yet hangs on the, in the psyche of workers, which is that you, you get a job and you are offered training, you're offered promotions, you're offered different things to do. And that hasn't been true for a very long time. Organizations... Well, I, I mean, it is true. You are offered that. But organizations really want their individuals to drive that. But on the flip side, the processes and procedures that are set up within organizations actually limit that. So as an individual, um, drive that. Question processes. Uh, sit down and talk to your managers, um, you know, i- in a respectfulful manner, but, you know, point out that, that things could be better. [laughs]

Alastair GreenerAnd, and you have to deal with that very delicately because, you know, nobody-

Kim Seeling SmithYes

Alastair Greener... likes to be told, um-

Kim Seeling SmithNo

Alastair Greener... a few truths. And, and that comes on, in, in all generations.

Kim Seeling SmithYes.

Alastair GreenerSo what about the oth-... The other elephant in the room is that, you know, sometimes it's suggested that the young don't know what they don't know. And that-

Kim Seeling SmithMm-hmm

Alastair Greener... so for example, the hybrid working model, on one hand is really effective, but on the other hand, they don't recognize that maybe the benefits they get from the water cooler training, the, the st- you know, the osmosis of those-

Kim Seeling SmithYeah

Alastair Greener... conversations that you have there.

Kim Seeling SmithWell, I'm, I'm actually reading some research saying that they do get it.

Alastair GreenerOkay.

Kim Seeling SmithThat they do get it, that they want it, but they want it in a different manner. Uh, they, they still want the benefit of those water cooler conversations, but they don't feel like they need to go, uh, subscribe to the old-school methodology of being in the office three, five days a week. There are other ways to do that, other ways to accomplish that. Uh, it- it's, uh, it's a matter of helping their, their managers, helping the leaders within the organizations think about things differently. "Yes, I know this is, this is something that I want. I want those osmosis conversations." So, you know, how can we, how can we facilitate that? Well, it's easy to facilitate using, using technology, using Teams or, or Zoom or whatever. You know, the Google Suite. Whatever, whatever you- technology you, you care to use. It's just a different way... You, you want to think about what the outcome is. The outcome is, um, I need mentoring, uh, and I need to be able to observe people, so how do I do that in this new world, you know, rather than going back to the office. I, I don't know if it made the news over there, but, um, there's a federal election coming up in, in Australia, and the opposition leader who is, um, the head of the Conservative Party, he was adamant, "When I get into office, we are bringing back federal workers five days a week." Well, last week he came around and said, "Nope. Made a mistake." 'Cause that'll never work. That will never happen. That ship has sailed. So we need to think differently. We need to understand what the outcome is and then choose a different path. It's like, if I were to fly from here to London, you know, there, or if I wanted to travel from here to London, there's an obvious way to go. You know, the way that, that I've traveled to London many times in the past, get on a plane and fly there. But that's not the only way to achieve the goal of getting to London. There are multiple ways of getting there. Some are not so fast, uh, but some are more scenic. So you've gotta weigh up the advantages and disadvantages and just think differently.

Alastair GreenerAnd when it comes to your background in recruitment, do you think recruiters have to think differently as well?

Kim Seeling SmithOh God, yes. [laughs] Absolutely. Um, the recruitment model has been broken for a very long time. Uh, organizations and recruiters alike need to stop treating recruitment like they're filling a takeaway order. We need to treat recruitment more like business development. We need to use technology as a tool, but not rely on technology. Uh, we need to understand what we're recruiting for, which far few hiring managers do, and then understand how to test the candidates to make sure that they have the abilities that they are looking for. Um, and like I said, you, you can use technology as a tool, but, uh, a lot... I, I see a lot of organizations delegating and abandoning to technology. And that's, that's not good either. And I'm, you know, I'm a firm believer of if you have... You don't necessarily need the experience, but you need the ability. And that's... You know, I've been hearing for years and years and years about how, you know, first it was the Gen Ys and then the Millennials that, you know, w- renamed the Gen Ys, uh, that, that they, um, you know, they didn't know what they didn't know. They didn't know... They didn't... They wanted a promotion within a minute and a half, and you know, uh, how dare they? How dare they have the audacity to think that they can succeed? And my argument has always been, uh, uh, you know, that is absolutely true. Um, uh, you, you can do a job, you can perform a role, you can do tasks, but the... really where the rubber meets the road and where experience comes in handy, and experience has nothing to do with age. But where experience comes in handy is not when things are going well, but when things are going pear-shaped. Um, it's that experience that will help you understand how to get out of the trouble that you're in, um, when things go pear-shaped. And, and that, I think, is, is how we need to think about that lack of experience or perceived lack of experience and, and, and how people need to, to recruit differently, 'cause it's, it's a very broken model.

Alastair GreenerNow, you're a futurist, so, uh, and, and, and I think there's a big difference between being a futurist and, and predicting the future. Um-

Kim Seeling SmithYes

Alastair Greener... but I would like-

Kim Seeling SmithOh, absolutely

Alastair Greener... for you to put a, a little bit of a crystal ball in terms of where you see this going. You know, what are the paradigm shifts that we should be looking at tomorrow, next year-

Kim Seeling SmithOh

Alastair Greener... in the next five years?

Kim Seeling SmithYeah.

Alastair GreenerUm, because it's only about f- what is it, five years before Gen Alpha start coming into the workplace? [laughs]

Kim Seeling SmithFunny enough, I have a crystal ball with me. [laughs]

Alastair Greener[laughs]

Kim Seeling SmithMy, uh, this is a prop because I say, "Who needs a crystal ball when you have the deep insights of Kim Ceiling-Smith?" Um [laughs]-

Alastair Greener[laughs]

Kim Seeling Smith... so, um, no. There, there are three clear types of disruptions that we're going to be facing, both as individuals and as organizations. The first is AI. Um, I have a very dear friend who is, um, uh, helped me get on the AI track. Uh, he's one of the world's foremost experts on AI. He consults to governments and corporations all over the world, and he says, "Put everything aside except AI because that is the future." Now, I'm not... I'm, I'm 97% maybe in agreement with him, but not 100% in agreement with him. But what we're seeing, what I'm seeing in the marketplace, is those companies and those people who have the will and the ability to embrace AI, to leverage AI, not to replace themselves but to augment what they do, to help them be better, they will be in fierce demand. Those that either are hesitant or don't, you know, don't have the ability or don't have the will to embrace it, they are going to find themselves, um, really struggling. So, that's the first disruption. The second is the polycrisis. So, that's where multiple crises emer- uh, converge. That's not my terminology. Somebody far smarter than I coined that term, but I think it's really descriptive of where we are with climate change, the shifting geopolitical landscape, economic headwinds, potential future pandemics, everything that is happening on a global societal basis. What that's doing is it is a- a- and look at what's happening in the US with tariffs. It's causing consumer demands to shift on a dime. So, whether it's the Trump tariffs or climate change, people are buying differently, and as a result of that, companies need to think differently. But I like to say as disruptive as these first two disruptions are, you have to have the right people in the right roles doing the right things in order to overcome the challenges and seize the opportunities from those disruptions. So, that brings me to the third disruption, which is the rise of the empowered workforce, where critical skill shortage, which is tr- structural and due primarily to declining birth rates, runs headlong into a workforce that has reprioritized since COVID. Um, so there's more, more supply, sorry, more demand than there is supply, and they know that they can call the shots, and they're reinventing our relationship with work. So, organizations need to understand what these three disruptions are. Individuals need to understand how to, how to, again, seize those opportunities. So, keep yourself, keep yourself updated with AI, understand, um, how consumer demands are shifting and, and protect yourself. Organizations absolutely need to do that, and organizations need to change their relationship with the worker to cater, not to bow to, but to cater to the new, um, requirements of the, not only the, the, uh, the, um, Gen Zed's and Gen Alpha's coming behind them, but also, I think that it's bleeding into the other generations. I see Baby Boomers all the time saying, "You know what? Uh, these Gen Zed's in my office have made it seem okay for me to ask for a four-day workweek." Um, so it's i- uh, I'm seeing this bleed out into the other generations.

Alastair GreenerI love that connection where, you know, it's almost like that rev- you know, mutual mentoring, um-

Kim Seeling SmithYeah

Alastair Greener... where they're actually helping each other a- and there's, there's far more that joins the generations than separates the generations, and it's, it's-

Kim Seeling SmithAbsolutely

Alastair Greener... really refreshing to, to, to hear that. We, uh, I mean, we could've been talking for hours, but sadly, we've, we've only got time for one more question, and it's a toughie. But if you can somehow sum up what you think we should be doing to create a more generationally cohesive workforce, what would you suggest?

Kim Seeling SmithTalk to each other and listen, learn, observe.

Alastair GreenerGreat advice. Look at that. I can't top that. That's absolutely brilliant.

Kim Seeling Smith[laughs]

Alastair GreenerKim, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you, and so much we could talk about.

Kim Seeling SmithAlways a pleasure.

Alastair GreenerAnd I think we're gonna have to get you back and, uh, talk more about, uh, th- the core part of-

Kim Seeling SmithPlease

Alastair Greener... your work of, you know, AI and, uh, the future of the workforce and everything else. Um, you're in huge demand, so thank you, uh, for coming on, uh, on my podcast today. Uh, if people wanna follow you, if they want to hear from you, how can they do that?

Kim Seeling SmithBest way to do that is, uh, well, my name. I'm the only Kim Ceiling-Smith on the planet, so that is my LinkedIn profile, Kim Ceiling-Smith, and my website, kimceilingsmith.com. So, uh, please do follow me. I actually have two newsletters. One drops every Tuesday Australia time about the future of business, future of work, and then my Everyday AI newsletter drops every Friday, which is really practical hands-on demos of some of the new and exciting AI tools out there. So, I invite you to connect with me on LinkedIn and to subscribe to one or both of those newsletters. Thank you for your time. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about this.

Alastair GreenerNo, thank you, Kim. It's, it's been absolutely great. I really appreciate your time. We'll put all of those details in the show notes as well. In the meantime, thanks everyone for listening and watching. Uh, I'll see you again soon. Bye for now. [instrumental music] The Alastair Greener Generationally Speaking Podcast was presented by me, Alastair Greener. It was recorded at Granary Studios and produced by James Jones. Please follow us and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. To find out more, visit generationallyspeaking.co.uk. [instrumental music]