Tom Penketh: Local Change, Big Vision: The Future Politician at 19

Automatically transcribed, so there may be the odd slip.

Alastair GreenerHello again, and welcome back to the Alastair Greener Generationally Speaking podcast, where we look at bridging the generation gap by debunking myths, tackling stereotypes, and sharing practical tips on how we can build stronger intergenerational connections. And today I've probably got one of my youngest. Podcast guests, uh, to join me. He breaks many of the Gen Z stereotypes. We'll find out which ones and how in a short while, just 18. He became the youngest counselor in the UK in 2023. Since then, he's been working hard for residents in his local ward, and he is also working at a local funeral care business. So quite an interesting chat ahead, so please welcome Tom pko. Hi Tom. Hi

Tom PenkethAlastair.

Alastair GreenerUh, thank you for joining us 'cause I know literally you were in in meetings before this and got other stuff later on. So, uh, thanks for taking time out and I think one of the things that people often don't realize is how hard our local counselors actually work for us. But we'll come to that in a while. The first thing I wanna talk about is you and your generation, gen ZI said, you're not typical of the generation, but maybe you, you feel you are. Where do you think you fit?

Tom PenkethUh, I am not sure a bit of a mix. Obviously, I break the, uh, the stereotype of uni or education and obviously being a counselor. None of my friends are counselors. Not many people my age are counselors across the country. Um, people can be politically active, but actually public office, there's a lack of young people, which I think we need more of. And then, but I'd say the bigger thing is funeral care and to be working in the funeral business at my age. Is very different. And a lot of people, well, don't expect it, uh, when I do tell them, and then they're very inquisitive, asking all questions and everything. But yeah, I think I break it in both areas.

Alastair GreenerAnd in, in terms of upbringing, was there anything different in your upbringing that, that you think led you to become different as a Gen Z?

Tom PenkethUh, no, I don't think so. Typical upbringing, family of five and two siblings, younger, sister, older brother, mom and dad. Um, always lived in the same house. Um, mom and dad? Not politically active. Never have been. Really? So don't know where? Well, I do know where, but my political life, should I say, didn't come from a parents or family members. Um, and the funeral care, where

Alastair Greenerdid it come from?

Tom PenkethWell, it's, it's a funny one. So obviously Joe Biden, Donald Trump went against each other in 2020. Um, and that's when I, I was in, I think I was in year 10, started following that, obviously in the states, reading about it, watching the videos, following obviously election day and, um. It just, I don't know what it spiked in me, but I was just really intrigued about it, kept following it, followed it obviously once that Joe Biden had won. Um, I think it's 'cause it was such a contentious selection. Most are, but Donald Trump obviously is a very well-known, very high profile figure. How do you like him or you don't? Bit like my might. I'd say the majority don't, but that's my opinion. So from there and then. It. When I got to year 11, I had to choose. I knew what to go to. Sixth form. I had to choose what I wanted to do. I was like politics straight away. Read about it, more intrigued and obviously started. Then the course, which was an introduction to British politics was the first module. The, um, love for the States. Still, still enjoy, you know, tuning in and seeing what they're up to. But now it's more focused on the UK and what I can do as a counselor. But it started with American politics.

Alastair GreenerAnd what was the, what was the reaction from your friendship group and family and people around you when you announced this interest in politics?

Tom PenkethI can't think what it was, to be honest. Obviously between the friend group at school, the election, there was teachers talking about it, there was students, so everybody was sort of intrigued anyway, watching it. Obviously it's a massive global event, um, the president, but. It was just sort of normal. Didn't feel any different. People weren't like, oh, he's into politics more than me. That's a bit weird or That's cool. It was just everything carried on as normal. The only difference was when I became a counselor myself, well, was involved in, uh, elections and campaigns before becoming a counselor. That's when family started to obviously support, um, me. The difference there was. Oh, this is brilliant. It's fantastic. What are you doing at your age? And I get that a lot. Fantastic. At your age, and we need more young people. And then the friends were like sort of joking. So say we'd go up to the pub, they'd be like, oh, be careful. Somebody might see you. You're a counselor. And it's like they have a laugh about it. But no, everyone's supportive. I've never had any, any issues.

Alastair GreenerAnd it's quite interesting that, you know, the young are generally seen, and again, I'm making a a, a sweeping statement here, but the young are generally seen as being. Sort of more movement active. So they, they will be very much behind things. They'll get involved in social media and so on, but to actually put their hat in the ring and to actually do something is, is a bit more of a rarity. Would, would, would that be a fair assessment of the Young's view of politics?

Tom PenkethYeah, definitely. I, I, I do agree with that. It's more of an active movement than individuals interested in becoming counselors, politicians. Involved politically, and I think social media plays a big part in that. It's got a big following. One thing goes out, everybody can see and share it. And obviously there's a lot of, um, I don't know, big decisions, big topics going round the media, which everybody then latches onto and they get involved with. But it doesn't necessarily mean that actually they want to become a politician and make the change across a variety of areas. It's just their interest in that one thing. They're giving their attention and efforts to it. But yeah, no, it's definitely a fair, fair judgment. It's more of an active movement than people seeking to become politicians effectively.

Alastair GreenerOne of the challenges that young people always have is that sort of imposter syndrome of, you know, well, what do I know compared to, you know, people who are very experienced and especially in the world of politics. I'm sure you've got some very seasoned politicians there. Yes. How, how did you navigate those waters?

Tom PenkethIt is difficult. Um, it helps being on some, on, on the youth council as well. So a bit of a step back in roles there though, with me being a town counselor, but town council's, political youth council's, non-political, and I really enjoy it. I get a lot out of it. So starting that, I think it is my fourth year, um, I've been on it, it helps that people, um, people, places have groups like that. We're the only youth council, and I think we were the first youth council to receive the Queens award for voluntary service. Obviously an effectively an MBE for groups, which we're very proud of. Um, but being in that you get to speak to counselors, you get to speak to council officers, so obviously political, non-political. We have health groups coming in, all different visitors and that helps us get the knowledge of things we don't already understand. But then actually I'd flip it and say that we've got experience of being young in today's world, seasoned politicians haven't. Back then for them it was different. Now it's very, very different. And actually I don't think young people are listened to enough and a big champion for that. We should be listened to more. We need a voice big project at the minute. Going through youth council, which I've taken a lead on as community officer is vote at 16. Um, our Labor MP and Oldham, Jim McMahon, OBE, he got a, uh, just a quick diversion. Got a private members bill in 2017. Everybody was contacting all the issues they wanted raising, putting forward, and actually had a consultation with youth council. I wasn't on it at the time, and then he took votes at 16 forward. So it had its first reading and we're hoping the campaign now is to get it into the King speech at the end of this year, around October time we expect it to be. Because then it'll be debated in Parliament. Doesn't necessarily mean it'll become, uh, legislation, but I know my own party, liberal Democrats, they back it, the Labor Party back it. So hopefully we see some real change. But yeah, in today's world, I think young people need to be listened to more because we've got the lived experience now. Our friends, families, youth groups, youth councils do a lot of work. Charities, voluntary organizations. And it's very different to what these seasoned politicians know the world to be when they was younger

Alastair Greenerand to engage young people. That's obviously a very good way to engage young people and hopefully that will make them more politically active and actually doing, rather than talking about it. Is there anything else that you think should be done to get. Generation Z actively involved. And of course Jen Alpha is right at, at your heels, you know, they're what, in 2025? They're 12, 13 years old, so it's, it's not that long before they're going to be coming in into the working and political environment is,

Tom Penkethit's a tough one. I think there's a variety of ways you can get young people more active, but I think it needs to start. In schools, schools do a lot of work. They, obviously, they have people coming and talking. I know our youth service going to our schools in Oldham, um, to talk about not necessarily politics and obviously getting into politics, but how you can help in your community. I've done it myself. Been into, uh, primary schools, spoken to primary school children about life in the public sector. Basically how you can serve your community. Voluntary doesn't have to be a job. You can do it in your own time. Lots of people make differences, lots of people get rewarded for it, which shows they're making a difference and that they care. But yeah, schools, but then youth groups, they want, young people want a release from school, they wanna go somewhere with their friends. We don't have enough to hold them. But other places do youth groups, youth centers, things for them to do. And I think if you've got the staff or the volunteers, whichever. Talking to them about it, making them aware of the community and they're getting out more. That gets 'em involved in community projects. But then again, back to social media, the majority of young people, and actually I'd say now, so I'm 20 now. When I was in year six, seven, hardly any friends phone, well not say year six, hardly any friends had phones, hardly anybody who was on social media. Now you've got year fives, year fours, that've got phones. They're on the online world, which can be a risk, can have its benefits, but can have its risks. And they're seeing a lot of information. There's a lot of positive information, a lot of negative information, but putting things out there that they see they might agree on might spike something in them like the US election did with me. They might become interested in something, follow it, read about it, and become. More involved in them areas. There's a lot about climate change. There's a lot of people my age are going through sixth form who are interested in climate change. Obviously we have the UN statistics, the uh, different global policies. And it is a worry because that is our future and it's our kids and grandkids, future seasoned politicians, like I mentioned before, of the older people in general. They won't be around when it's gonna affecting us, but they're treating it in their own way and not listening to young people. Which I think is why there's a more active base of young people being involved in, in big decisions like that.

Alastair GreenerI mean, so much to unpack there, but one of the things that I'm really intrigued by is, as a politician, the one skill you need as a politician is resilience. Because you get knock backs, you get the criticism. Even if people are delighted, the fact that a young person is getting into politics, they might not agree with your politics. So you've had to develop probably quite a, a thick skin. That's something. Thing that is not normally associated with Gen Z. So first of all, would you agree with that? Do you think that's an fair assessment? And secondly, if it is reasonably fair, what is it about you that's helped you to develop that sort of more resilient attitude?

Tom PenkethYeah. So one, yes, I do think it's fair. That is a fair judgment. I would agree with that. And two. I just, I don't like, the politics came from nowhere. So did the confidence. I mean, a few years ago I wouldn't even ring the local takeaway an order over the phone because I didn't wanna speak over the phone. But now I'm in, I'm in schools giving, giving talks, I'm in, uh, business meetings, network meetings, you know, promoting, um, the active movement of the youth, how they can get involved actually, that we should be listened to. And I don't. I honestly don't know where it came from. It just, I'd probably say, actually that's a lie. I'd say youth council going from, well, doing nothing really. I wasn't active in anything. It'd be school, home, family. That's it. Joining Youth Council has given me all them opportunities to improve public speaking, to improve my confidence, to meet with different people, get used to talking to different audiences about different topics. How you tailor that to depend who you're speaking to. So the confidence definitely came from there along with many other skills. But when you're in a, so obviously youth council is non-political, as we said, when you're in the politics world, it's very different. My first meeting as a counselor at the Annual Council in 2023, just three weeks after I was elected with the largest majority out of all the time. Counselors, may I add, um, and the youngest counselor in the country may also add, um. I was speaking about, so there was 14 seats, like I mentioned before, but one seat, nobody stood in, so we had to co-op somebody. We had two people put their interest forward. One was an independent member of the public, owns a business in July, his own business in the States, and he's been a real community advocate. The other person was a candidate who had stood for this independent group. I mentioned not been elected twice, but because the independent group had the majority, they chose to co-op their own. And I spoke and I just said, if you look at, but she didn't even bother filling in the application. She just basically wrote that she was a good neighbor 'cause she knew she was gonna get on. Whereas this other gen from the community had spent all this time putting together his information, what he's done, what he plans, to, how he can help. It was brilliant. Anybody looking at it would've chose this chap, but because it was the independence, they co-opted their own, which I get, but it wasn't fair. So I spoke about it. It wasn't fair how you can clearly see someone's more qualified as to say for the role. And straight after that meeting in the next couple of days, a standards complaint was put in against me by a member of the public, but who supports the independent groups and more specifically this lady that they co-opted. So from being elected to three weeks later, having a standards complaint, you grow up really quick. You can't let it bother you. You've just gotta get on with it. Luckily, it didn't bother me. It didn't go anywhere. There was obviously no, um. But to the, the complaints, so it got dropped, which I knew it would. I was just speaking on behalf of the residents who had twice chosen not to elect this counselor, but then she'd been co-opted. But the thick skin, it is just, I don't know. It's natural almost. You just, you just it without realizing, don't choose to be like, do I take offense by that or not? You just don't let it bother you as soon as you let something like happen. You

Alastair Greenercertainly wouldn't stay in politics very long. If you let bother you, would you?

Tom PenkethExactly. And as soon as something bothers you and people know that things just continues to keep to bother you and then you're in a, an endless loop then of never really feeling confident. And as soon as your confidence is knocked, which is sometimes is you do feel down, but they saying, how can I come back better? How can I help the residents more? But yeah, I do agree that you do need thick skin. Um, and that mine came from, I'd say the experiences of youth council. So I can't thank them.

Alastair GreenerSo as you've, as you've gained more experience as a politician, and you've, uh, developed a work, which we're gonna come to your work in the funeral care sector in a while, has your friendship group changed at all? And your social life, the way that you, the way you are, have, have you seen that evolve?

Tom PenkethSo,

Alastair GreenerI

Tom PenkethIt hasn't. It hasn't. It has, in terms of. It's not as big, um, in the friendship group, but I think that's mainly due to being out of six forms. People go their own path, they go to uni, they get apprenticeships, jobs, whichever. But I've still got the core group of friends, which I had through school and in six forms, some from primary school, others from high school. And then there's even a couple. And actually I'd say my best friend now is only from six farms. I've only known him four years and yet straight away. Somebody says, have you got a best friend? Yeah, I have. It's Connor. So, and everybody knows that, but it's not changed and we still do the typical things. People our age, would we still adults. Oh.

Alastair GreenerIt is interesting, isn't it? I mean, 'cause some of that could be just age rather than, you know, the, the path that you've particularly chosen to take. Well, exactly. And one of the things that I'm, I'm really, um, impressed with this work I do in schools. I, I love the fact that today I think youngsters are far better accepting difference, whether it's a difference in the way you look or sound or the way you present yourself or in terms of the career that you pursue. Would you agree with that?

Tom PenkethYeah, I would. I would. It's, for me, it was very much an age thing. You get to the age where you do go off, you do your own thing. So you do lose touch eventually with people. But I just think if you've got a good group of friends, you get on, well, obviously you have life experiences together. You will always have them friends. I can picture myself in the future whether I've come into being an MP or not, which is the goal. Um. I'll still have the core friends from my age now, and we still do things. Everybody else would go to the pub, go on nights out, and we enjoy it. We have a laugh. It's not 'cause I'm a counselor. I work in the funeral care, the two very serious things. But I also have my social life, which I enjoy with my group of friends. So as long as young people understand they can keep friends and be a normal person, they'll be all right.

Alastair GreenerExactly, and especially when you get to those high levels of, of, of politics and, uh, hopefully your goal will come through about being an mp, but I'll talk about that in a moment. But what about your relationship with people of different ages? You know, we talked earlier on about, you know, the, what can sometimes be patronizing comments from older people, whether that's on the doorstep or whether that's in the council chamber. How have you navigated that? I.

Tom PenkethYeah, it can be tough and it does happen. Um, it's happened to me. I know it's happened to, I have some other younger colleagues, not as young as me, but late twenties, and it's happened to them as well. Being out on the, well, I do the problems first, so yeah, I do get spoken down to, in, in the council meetings I have been, and just simple things. I don't expect people to address me as counselor in the meeting, but it's simple things as Tom, this Tom that Tom, you don't know, Tom, you don't understand. It's actually quite insulting and like I said before, I don't let it bother me, but I just think it's not the way to speak to somebody else. I'll always address them as through you chair, counselor, such thing, or counselor. It's never the first name or the last names or nicknames and I never assume they don't know something. Or not attack them, but go against them because they don't know something. I wouldn't do that. So it's a bit unfair that they think they can do that to me, just because I'm young and it's, you don't know this, it's actually, well, I do know this and I've done some case work on this. What have you done about that? And it's like, oh, well we've not, and it's so they've not done anything I have, but yet I'm the one who doesn't understand things. But that what helps is being on the doorstep. You're speaking to people of all ages. Young people, young families, older people, older families, a whole variety of, and what helps as well, not everybody agrees with you. Far from it, they're always your counselor, what you doing about this? Can you do this? Can you do that? And it's like, well, yeah, we can look at it. So being able to speak to a huge variety of people definitely helps with how you not how you change the way you talk to people, but. You have it in the back of your mind of how to communicate better with different age groups, but on the doorstep is fine campaign and I've never had issues with people on the age. It's actually people already elected into council office that seem to not like me 'cause I'm young.

Alastair GreenerAnd you know what, you're probably gonna have that for some, for some years to come, but one of the things I'm really impressed by is that, you know, you, you have a, a, a wonderful appreciation of appropriateness. And the way I, the reason I say that is because the, you know, the, you talked about the way you address your colleagues in council, the fact that your career is very much based on formality and when. The whole world is becoming less formal and more casual. There you are as a counselor, addressing people in what some people might see as slightly old fashioned ways. And I'm sure that your, that the way that you act as, um, somebody in the funeral care business, again, there's that level of formality. Is that something you've had to learn or is that something you, you just had naturally?

Tom PenkethI'd say, yeah. I'd say it's a bit of both. I'd say I have learned. Uh, probably 50 50. I have learned it, but I've been brought up. Well, been brought up with respect. You respect everybody, no matter their age. Treat others as you wish to be treated. Obviously, I'm very religious. Go to church that teaches us that as well to respect everybody as Jesus did love our neighbor, a famous saying, but it's just basic respect to me, like you just said. Then people would see it as old fashioned addressing people by not the title, but by. A prefix counselor, or through you chair or Mr. Mayor. To me, that's basic respect. You are elected into that role by the community to be an advocate for them, but at the same time, that doesn't give you free reign of how you can speak to people. I. You're still gotta treat everybody with respect. Differing views are not, which I always try to do, and I think I so preceded that. And obviously being in the funeral care, that helps a lot. You're dealing with families all the time. You're dealing with obviously loved ones who have passed away. Dignity and respect is our big saying. At the co-op, we treat everyone with dignity and respect families and the ones who have passed away equally the same. And it definitely does help. It teaches you that. Actually, when a time people need you most, you can be there to speak to them, to give them support, not to just ignore them. And that's not my problem. I'm just driving the car or I'm just on the funeral. It's the families that come first and being able to speak to them, respect them, help them when they need it. You'll go firing life if, if everybody has basic respect.

Alastair GreenerHow does an 18-year-old get into the funeral care business?

Tom PenkethGood question. Uh, the answer is. I don't know. I just finished sixth form. I knew I didn't want to go. I had a, I had a place for journalism, but I didn't want to do it, so I pulled out of that and then, um, I thought, right, I'll enjoy my summer with my friends before they start uni. I. Then I'll, I'll look at getting a job. So I looked around and applied to a couple, didn't get them. And then I saw the advert, I can't remember where I saw it, saw the advert for ceremonial crew. So driving the hearsts and the limos on the funerals and being a bearer if you need it. And I thought, oh, that sounds really interesting. And I like wearing suits and dressed in smarts. I thought I'll do me well. So I applied for it and I was actually in Wales with my friend group at the time on like a, what they called in the uk, a staycation, whatever people like to call them. Yep. And I got a call saying, have you got W know half an hour to have a, it wasn't an interview, but to find out more about me. So I said, yeah, fine. I remember we'd just come out, go-karting and I was sitting at the car park, so I was speaking to 'em about it and they're asking me all these questions and told 'em about me volunteering at Dots Khors Hospice and they said, oh, that's fabulous. So ended did that on on good terms and then got a date for an interview. Went for the interview and ended up with the job. And I was quite shocked that I got it, but very. Happy that I got it because I was excited to learn actually what goes on. Obviously in that industry, being a volunteer at the hospice, you're dealing with patients and families who are at end of life care. What happens after that? How are people treated and looked after and given the best, send enough they can be given? So I started that, enjoyed it. Did that for three months, then got offered. Not a promotion as such, but another role, which is still the ceremonial side. So still driving under the funerals and, and looking after the families, but also then. Back of house. So it's collecting people who have passed away from homes, hospitals, hospices, um, looking after them in our care, dressing them, obviously making the coffins, making them look the best they can for the family. And the final journey,

Alastair Greeneryou, you have this remarkable caring quality. Everything you've talked about has lent towards the fact that you care about other people deeply. Where do you think that that's come from?

Tom PenkethWell, thank you. I, I really appreciate that comment. Um, I'd say my family we're a really good, not a massive family, but we've got a good size family. We're all very close. We do a lot of things together. Mom and dad's side, good split. Um, so we've got the good family connections there, but again, the way I've been brought up, I've been brought up to treat everyone with respect to look after people when they need it. If I've got it, someone needs it, they can have it. Um. My mom, she works at, that's Kershaw's Hospice. So I've always been before 16 unofficially helping out with events and stuff through the hospice. And then obviously when I turned 16 I could sign up as a, an official volunteer, which I did and I've loved it over the years. The different events, different people, different volunteers. It's like a whole other family. All the, uh, got a lot of old ladies in the shops and things, and they're like second grandmas. It's brilliant. So, uh, I just, I've always been surrounded by loving care to care for others. Always been looked after. Um, obviously again, the hospice, that environment and the friend group schools and youth council is about looking after each other, you know, not judging people who they are, attack the point, not the person. Everything like that. So I've always been surrounded by it. So I think it's one off on me.

Alastair GreenerOne of my missions with this podcast is to help people bridge the generation gap and to debunk myths. And you've done a tremendous job at Debunking myths. Let's tackle the bridging the gap. Where do you see the responsibility for bridging that gap? Is it with older generations? Is it with younger generations? And if it's a bit of both, what proportion, roughly would you say that responsibility comes to?

Tom PenkethSo I do think it's both. Everybody's got the responsibility no matter what age you are, and I think for older people it's a case of not necessarily like the pensioner age, but, and especially in political life, sort of fifties, sixties, it's that young people aren't as important as us. We've got lived experience. We are old enough, we understand such things. But like I was saying before, so do young people and we are living in the world now, which is our future. So we want the changes we, we want to see, we want to protect certain things, look after each other, and it's a case of young people should be listened to more, but at the same time, young people can do more for the older generation. I mean, obviously myself, I've always helped other people out spending time at hospice with the older volunteers, and it's lovely to have a chat and a catch up and share stories, but there's also a lot of young people who are, I wouldn't say disadvantaged, but. I don't know how to phrase it. There's a lot of young people who aren't, I don't, I don't know how to phrase it. Basically like you have groups of teenagers who will go out and hang around the shops or go out and vape and all this, and it's choosing not to participate in a community feel, you know what I mean? They're sort of keeping themselves, themselves, whereas actually you could interact with more people. Go to different youth groups, get involved with different things in the community that other people are at, and then everyone then together gets on well as to say, um, but no, the, the responsibility is with everybody and it's, it is a good mix. But I think the biggest issue for me and being political and through youth council is that young people just aren't listened to enough in big things that will affect them. That's what it comes down to.

Alastair GreenerI think that's very sage advice, you know, for, for, for all of us in terms of listening, whether you are younger, listening to older or older, listening to younger, um, listening comes up time and time again. Tom, it's been fantastic chatting to you and it's been really revealing and it's been lovely to hear, um, about your journey and I'm looking forward to seeing a. MP from your area, um, up there or down there in, in London in due course. Are you fighting the next election? Uh, for the, uh, the seat.

Tom PenkethI'm hoping to get onto Borough Council first in the next couple of years. There's opportunities there, but it's not ruled out.

Alastair GreenerOkay. Well, we wish you all the best. Thank you so much for being a brilliant guest, uh, today. I've really enjoyed chatting to you and if people want to get hold of you, chat to you, um, to be inspired by you, how can people get hold of you? Uh,

Tom PenkethFacebook. On Facebook, either Tom Pen or counselor Tom Pener. Hey, gives it away on the profile picture or email and it's counselor, CL lr, and then Tom pen@gmail.com. And I'm happy to chat with anybody about anything I've really enjoyed being on today. So thank you very much for the opportunity.

Alastair GreenerNo thank, thank you. And we'll put all of those contact details in the show notes as well. Uh, Tom, thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure, and thank you for listening and watching again, and we'll be back in two weeks time with another podcast, debunking Myths, and hopefully giving you a little bit more of an insight into how we can all get on better between the different generations. Bye for now. The Alastair Greener Generationally Speaking podcast was presented by me, Alastair Greener. It was recorded at Granary Studios and produced by James Jones. Please follow us and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. To find out more, visit generationally speaking.co.uk.