Gen Z at Work, Retention, Engagement, and the Real Cost of Ignoring It

Automatically transcribed, so there may be the odd slip.

Alastair GreenerHello and welcome to the Alastair Greener Generationally Speaking podcast, where we look at bridging the generation gap by debunking myths, tackling stereotypes, and sharing practical tips on how we can build stronger intergenerational connections. My guest today is co-founder of Gen Z, coach, or is it Gen Z? Coach? We'll find out a minute. It's a consultancy that helps forward thinking organizations become future fit by maximizing the. The potential of their Gen Z workforce. It's an absolute pleasure today to talk to Patrick Quinton Smith. Hi Patrick.

Patrick QuintonHi, Alastair. Pleasure to be here and chat with you also.

Alastair GreenerAnd is it Gen Z or Gen Z, which can't be Yuen.

Patrick QuintonWell, it's, uh, yeah, the American or the English, we kind of automate, alternate between the two to be honest. Um, so yeah, gen Z, gen Z, I'll just use 'em interchangeably. What do you, what do you say?

Alastair Greeneryou, um, I, I interchange as well, to be honest with you. I think it, it, it varies on, on my audience and where I am and, and so on. 'cause actually some people, um, aren't too keen. Probably predominantly older people aren't too keen on what they perceive as Americanisms,

Patrick QuintonYeah. No, I hear that.

Alastair Greenerbut I, I'm, I'm pretty relaxed about it, but, so, so you, you are, you are Gen Z or Gen Z.

Patrick QuintonYeah, yeah, I'm on the, I'm on the cusp. I mean, the, the age, the definitions of Gen Z vary a little bit, but I'm born in 1996. I'm on the, I could call myself a, a millennial in a sense. So I, uh, I kind of, I feel like I've lived both worlds and I've, I've, I've the youngest of five siblings, um, and they're all millennials, so I've kind of grown up. In a millennial household, so to speak, but you know, my friends are Gen Z, so yeah, I've been able to see, see both worlds, which I think benefits the work that I do.

Alastair GreenerYeah, completely. And actually it's interesting that you, you know, being the youngest of five siblings, I mean yes. Wow. That is quite something because that, that will frame the way you think, uh, by itself. And of course, as you said, you know, they're all older than you and if you are around older people, as you know, that will have an impact on your, on your thinking as well. So do you identify as as both then, effectively dear?

Patrick QuintonI would, it's funny saying that you identify, but I do, I would identify as Gen I, gen Gen Z, because yeah, that's how the environment I've grown up in with my friends, but. Uh, I'm not sure I would define myself as, as, as either, I would say. Um, yeah, it's an interesting question that ' cause some, it's interesting 'cause a lot of, but a lot of people who aren't Gen ZI know a lot of Gen Xs who say they identify as Gen Z. 'cause it's almost like a, it's almost like a way, it's a set, it could be cast as a set of values and a way of thinking in a way. Um, so

Alastair Greenerto a certain degree, but I think that the challenge you are, you are the generation. You are purely because of the environment you were brought up in. You know, you were brought up in a different age, technologically attitude and everything else. So yes, you might like the attributes of a Gen Z, but actually you are going to be framed. By your generation of, of, of when you were born. Um, you know, on, on, on the whole, but actually you've also broken the mold in that your Gen Z who, gen Z and millennials are on the whole having, you know, many of those big decisions in life are coming later, like getting married, having children settling down, but you've already, you've just got married. So first of all, congratulations on that. Again, I can imagine there aren't that many of your cohorts who are getting married, they're leaving it till later. Or is that maybe another myth?

Patrick QuintonIt is interesting. Yeah, I mean, a lot of my, a lot of my friends, well actually from my friends from school, my friends from primary school and um, and some friends from secondary school, that group that circle a lot of got married, which is interesting, particularly from my primary school, which is, um, yeah, it's strange, but certain other circles, it's, it's less common. My sister's friend, she's. Three years older than me, very few got married. So it is definitely, but yeah, it's definitely interesting to see those

Alastair GreenerWell, it's like everything else, you know? As, as, as you know, my mantra is we're framed by a generation not defined by it. So, you know, it just shows we shouldn't just, you know, believe the patterns that, that, that we read. And so for you being the youngest of, of the siblings and the environment in which you were brought up in. Was it a fairly traditional household or was it what we would recognize as a Gen Z household?

Patrick QuintonWell, actually my, my dad's a fairly old boomer because my inner sense, it's fairly old boomer. Um, but he's 72. So I feel like I've grown up with quite a traditional, um, yeah, sort of parenthood, I guess I was raised as a millennial in a sense. Um, 'cause of some of his values around work ethic, he runs his own business. So I feel like some of the, the principles of leadership, which we see in business today were kind of instilled in me. So that's why I feel it's interesting 'cause I feel like I really get the mindset out of a lot of. Leaders in the workplace, but I also understand the, the mindset and values and of digital natives, my generation, 'cause that's how I've grown up. So I can really see, see where the conflicts arise because of that. Because the mindsets are incredibly different. Um, so yeah, but I'd say it was, um, yeah, pretty traditional, apart from the fact I've got four of their siblings. So the household was pretty crazy, you know, if everyone's got two friends over. You know, there's suddenly 10, 10 kids in the house, um, which was a lot of fun.

Alastair GreenerYeah, I can, I can just imagine. But that's really interesting how that frames you having an an, an, an older father because Yes, brilliant. In the work that you do. So give me a, you know, because obviously you, you're still, you know, relatively young, certainly compared to people like myself. So, you know, but yet you've already started your own business and things. Give us a, a very quick trajectory of how you got to the point you're at now to be running your own Gen Z coaching business.

Patrick QuintonYeah, I think the fir, the first thing that a seed was planted is from a very early age of my dad running his own business. So I think that was always something that was on my mind being, seeing that it was possible. Um, so I've always wanted to have my own business and I've been incredibly interested in, in business and essentially creating, creating a reality in a life that you really want. I've always been interested in psychology, so that's kind of, I know it's always on the card to me in my future. I was always just waiting for the right, the right thing. I always thought it'd be a product, you know, the new Facebook or something like that. I never thought it would be a, a service in a sense, um, or, or consultancy. Um, but I will start when I, uh, studied business economics at university. I ran, um, a, uh, events business there. So I'd been involved in businesses, you know, kind of growing up. And then when I started, uh, bulb Energy, which is, um, it was the fastest growing, um, well, it was fastest growing startup in Europe at the time as an energy supplier. Now owned by Octopus. I joined there and I was really struggling early in my career. I had really bad mental health, didn't know where I wanted to go into my, in my career. Um, I felt really stuck, lost and confused. Um, but what what happened is I had a, a coach that really changed my whole mindset. So I was gonna quit my job, but the coach helped me really see a pathway cutting. A long story short. That coach helped me stay in the business number three and a half years. It led to me getting about seven, seven promotions in that time. Um, became a manager and then I realized I, I really went through a transformation, helped me overcome all the barriers I was facing, and I realized this is an incredible skill and this person helped me to do this. Just through this talking to me, I was like, I need to learn this skill to help other young people that I was leading in the teams to overcome challenges that I observed them. Challenging, uh, dealing with the same challenges I faced. So I learned to coach with the International Coaching Federation, got my qualifications and used that whilst I was in the business, and that kind of led to a lot of the success that I had. But it just, it became so clear to me that young people needed this. Um, and organization, the organization that I was in, and others were also struggling with the same challenges that young people faced. And I just realized that there was a massive gap and opportunity and I was just getting so many signals and feedback from people I was speaking to that organizations needed support with this. And I really, I really felt driven to do it, given my challenges starting my career, but also my passion for leadership and business. Um. So, yeah, it got to a point where I decided to quit my job and just go for it. I thought life's too short. I'm 26. Let's go for it now. It's now whenever, and it's, and it's, and it's worked out. Don't mean that has challenges. It's worked out.

Alastair GreenerI'd like to go back, if I may, to you talking about being with Bob because, and having a coach, where did was that coach provided for by the company?

Patrick QuintonIt was, it wasn't provided. Um, they, they paid for it through my request, so I. I found a coach myself. 'cause I was really, I was really struggling, didn't know what to do. I said, I'm just gonna go travel to India and, uh, find myself again and work it all out. But my brother, who's the oldest of the, of the, of my siblings who's a bit concerned and said, maybe you should, you know, try not to go to India. And he, he, he pointed me in the direction of a coach and I found one who was amazing. Um, but the business paid for it.

Alastair GreenerSo the business, so you went to the business and said, um, I, I, I wanna stay in the business, but I'm not sure whether I can, so if you pay for a coach, then actually you're gonna get more outta me.

Patrick QuintonExactly, and I was, you know, fortunate. They, you know, I think they saw potential in me. I think they wanted me to, to stay and

Alastair GreenerAnd that's really forward thinking. You know, that's, that's so, and it, it, it's something you'd expect maybe from a startup, but also maybe from some of the established, um, companies and organizations doing that kind of stuff. Because I did a recent piece of work working out that if a. 1000 employee company kept their staff for just six more months. They'd wind up saving 800,000 pounds a year.

Patrick QuintonWow, that's amazing.

Alastair Greenerif, if, if you start employing coaches or start helping people. Use coaches and paying for it. Actually it's gonna be a down site cheaper than losing staff. Um, so it's that, that's a wonderful forward thinking. Move on, on their part, which other organizations should probably take notice of.

Patrick Quintonwell, exactly. I mean, this is a, a big part of, you know, the work that we do at Gen Z Coach as well. It's really helping organizations see the costs of losing people and, and retention costs and trying to help them, not, it's not just about the retention, but it's also the engagement piece as well. Um, and I, I, I. It's like I had to, you know, rocket up my backside after I had that coaching. It wasn't just that I stayed, I was so motivated. Um, so it really, yeah, it was really an amazing investment for them, to be honest. 'cause it didn't cost that much in the grand scheme of things.

Alastair GreenerYeah, no, I, I think that's wonderfully forward thinking, and I think it's also something that is possibly systematic of a successful business today, that they're investing in that way in their people, and it's, it's quite interesting, isn't it, when you look at organizations today, this whole. Concept and, and we're gonna focus particularly on Gen Z, but also the way Gen Z are interacting with other generations at work. And I'd be really interested in, in how you do that work because it's something that can make a big difference to the organization and to the individual. And most of all, as you said, that engagement piece, I mean, Gallup did that amazing piece of work last year all about the amount that people engaged or the lack of engagement, so. First of all, in terms of your business, um, how do people find you? You know, what's the process that normally people think, hang on a second, we need help. How does, how do they recognize that?

Patrick QuintonHow do they recognize it? It's a really interesting question. I mean, a lot of, to be honest, a lot of the businesses, they, they're either really, they're being either being reactive and they've got retention issues, um, or they've got engagement issues and it's, you know, productivity is low and therefore they go, okay, well, you know, we've, we've had to speak to the, it's come from the top, from the board. You know, we need to do something about this. Some organizations we work with consider not employ, stop employing. For their early careers. And these, some are large organizations, so they go, well, we need to consciously address this. And at that point, they often, that's when they reach out to us. And actually about about 90% of the work we do initially is working with senior leaders or people who aren't Gen Z to understand Gen Z. So it's helping them understand who they really are and moving away from assumptions, moving away from myths and how they can really. Improve their strategy and the behaviors to toward, to making it a more multi-generational company that supports young people to, to creating that environment where they can thrive and want to stay. Um, so it's either reactive or in many organizations we work with, they recognize that they recognize where the world is going. They recognize the challenges or differences of digitally, digitally native generations and wanna get ahead of it because. The gaps in generations only getting wider as the rate technology increases and young people are continuing to use that technology before their prefrontal, you know, cortex is developed so they want to get ahead of it because this problem's not going away. The gap's only getting wider.

Alastair GreenerAnd, and actually that brings up very neatly the topic of ai. Um, which, you know, let's be honest, everybody is struggling with, there's very few people who are completely comfortable. But I think it's possibly affecting Gen Z more than any other generation because of expectation, because of the graduate workplace, and because of the fact that they've just come out of university where the chances are they haven't really used AI because they've got lecturers who aren't using it themselves perhaps. So how do you deal with that whole a AI issue, and what are you finding when you are working with organizations?

Patrick Quintonis interesting. The, a AI hasn't actually been an issue with the companies that we've worked with. Um, it, I guess it's a concern when looking at. The future of work and you know, the, where it's going in terms of automation, but I don't think it's quite there yet with, and I know that, um, Deloitte, or is it pwc of, you know, they've cut 200 jobs recently. Um, so for some organizations automation is meaning that they are reducing the amount of young people that they hire. But I think. It's, it is gonna get worse. But I think in terms of, in terms of the people in the organization, young people in the organization, it hasn't, it hasn't seen any major challenges. What about, what's your, what's your view on that and the challenges with, with AI in the, the workplace at the moment

Alastair Greener, I think they're going to have to have a very big partnership between Gen Z and um, the organization. And I think there needs to be an awful lot of honesty as well, because I think a lot of Gen Z probably aren't going to front up with the fact that they do not know much about. AI and they want help with ai. And I think if organizations invest in training their graduates and their Gen Z cohort in AI and there's an open conversation about it, I think that can actually be a, a massive benefit. But there needs to be that honest conversation and I, I can imagine in many respects, it's being dodged and. Actually, it brings me neatly to the next, my next point that I, I bang on a lot about in my work, about the onboarding and the recruitment process being joined up. Because a lot of large organizations, particularly you have one function who do the recruitment, another function who are doing the um, onboarding and when Gen Z gets to the onboarding process and they find that actually everything that was discussed in the recruitment. Process isn't actually exactly as they thought it was gonna be. That's an immediate start to a problem.

Patrick QuintonA hundred percent. It's, it's such a massive challenge. And this really, this really grinds, you know, out my generation's gears because transparency and, you know, authenticity is a core value of, of our generation. So when we, when we've been sold. A pipe dream and we turn out, it's not what it is, then we totally lose trust in the organization, but straight away. So it is the worst. It's one of the worst things that an organization can do to build that trust and therefore, you know, get results from this generation. So it's, that's one of the. The things that organiz organizations come in, uh, when the young people come in and go, got these lazy, lazy son of a, you know, why can't, why are they so disengaged? But actually they haven't realized that they've just made a rod for their own back by Yeah. As you said, having disparate, um, recruitment and onboarding teams. So yeah, it's a big

Alastair GreenerAnd, and, and also, and also quite often unrealistic expectations from, from their teams as well.

Patrick QuintonExactly, I mean, expectations. That's one of the, that's one of the main things that we, we speak to organizations about is, is aligning on expectations. And it's not just about what the role is, but actually what the expectations are in the workplace. Because young people growing up, you know, starting the work, uh, at workplace during COVID growing up as digital natives, as different values, their expectations, what they want from work is totally different. So that conversation. Has to be had. So yeah, expectations is so, so important.

Alastair GreenerWhat are the other major issues that you find yourself having to deal with when you go and work with organizations to bridge that generation gap? What are some of the other things that you, you are, you are discovering or they're asking for help with?

Patrick QuintonHmm. I think that I've, I've touched on it earlier, but the first bit is really that, that shifting the mindsets of lead of leadership, you know, helping them overcome their own assumptions and biases. One of the, the best things we do with executives and partners of large organizations is just asking them like, what, what are the assumptions that. People have about Gen Z in society. We ask it what the societal assumptions so they can kind of share, uh, depersonalize it, but then we help them understand that, okay, well if we have these assumptions, how are we likely to communicate? How we like to, we like to communicate in a way that empowers, or a way that disempowers, and it's almost like a, a triangle of our beliefs impact our communication. And our communication directly impacts the performance of the people that we're leading. And then that performance will then reinforce the beliefs or the assumptions that we have. So if we are believing that Gen Z are lazy, how are we likely to communicate with them? We're likely they be a bit more dismissive. Maybe not give them opportunities, we don't think they'll take it on. That leads to them being disengaged, not feeling empowered, so they likely to maybe do a substandard piece of work or you know, more likely to leave earlier as well, and therefore reinforces those beliefs. So we help them understand that their beliefs create impact, directly impact the performance of younger people and, and then help them, you know, work on really educating just who this generation is to build empathy. One of the core things about the work we do is building generation intelligence. I think I've talked about this term of view, but we deem it as the skillset of being able to understand, empathize, and communicate across all generations. And a big part of that understanding and empathy is just, yeah, a lot of the, the work that you do, um, and we do around educating, so that's. That's honestly the one of the biggest bits. But then opening up two way, two way dialogue and reverse feedback and yeah, I won't go into all that now, but there's a lot that goes into it.

Alastair GreenerAnd what advice do you give to Gen Z themselves? So, you know, you're working with a C-Suite a lot, getting them to see Gen Z in a different way, but there's also work for Gen Z to do so. What, how do you help them to, you know, be more prepared and more proactive in the workplace?

Patrick QuintonYeah, I think one of the things that we hear the most and um, is about resilience, and you would've seen pwc, um, news this week that they have invested loads and resilience training for their, for their early careers, so helping them, and a big part of that resilience is being able to receive feedback. Being able to, yeah, really realize that feedback is a gift and it's not personal, and it's something that if you want to improve and you want to grow, that is the only way you've got to try. You've gotta fail, make mistakes, and be open to receiving that and develop, developing that growth mindset. I think it's one of the most, for me personally as well, that was one of the biggest things my coach helped me with. Is to really develop a growth mindset and to not take feedback personally because across all organizations feedback can really knock people, knock young people. 'cause they take it so personally growing up, social media, having a, maybe a deeper sense of insecurity about themselves, not feeling they're good enough, feeling they're behind. Um, so it's just helping them understand why they might lack some resilience, um, and then really how to overcome it. So that's one of the main things.

Alastair GreenerAnd, and what about the relationship between the employer and employee? How have you seen that evolve and how are you helping them to shift that into a, a, a, a different way of working?

Patrick QuintonYeah, so I think one another thing we really talk about is that just open dialogue and reverse feedback. Being able to help leaders to just get, ask, ask the people that they're leading, to get feedback on how they're leading is just such an important, um, piece of what we do. So you can do that, they can do that themselves. Um, but it's also young people to learn how to give feedback upwards as well. Just have that dialogue and understand how you wanna work, um, with each other. So that, I think the whole thing that we've seen through this work is just that. Understanding of, um, each other and each generation so that they can just communicate more openly, being able to resolve conflicts. Because a lot of the problems that we see is because there's a lack of communication on both sides, and so conflicts really escalate and they can lead to tribunals and in many instances. So it's really a two-way street of young people. They've gotta be able to express themselves confidently and say what they need or share, say what they have challenges with. Um, but also, yeah, being able to, it's just creating that, those spaces and really encouraging people to do that. So that just, uh, cohesiveness, I would say is like the first thing that we see.

Alastair Greenerwhat's the toughest part of your job when it's bridging that gap? What's the, what's the biggest area, the, the biggest hill you have to climb, shall I say?

Patrick QuintonMm-hmm. The biggest hill we'd have to climb, I would actually say, is with a lot of leaders who, some are very resistant to the idea of changing their mindset towards young people, being more open to new ways of, new ways of being towards younger people. I think there's a lot of, um, objections when it comes to this work. Why should we have to coddle this generation? Why should we have to change, um, ourselves? You know, isn't this whole conversation, you know, just a bit of fluff? Um, you know, do we, haven't there always been generational differences? So like, why is this such a big deal now? Like, surely they just need to, you know. Grow a bit of resilience and, you know, not be so entitled. There's a lot of the objections that we kind of hear. So I think, but that's the kind of conversations that we, we really love and thrive on. So those are the most common challenges and blockers, I would say, is helping, is helping those, shifting those mindsets, those leaders. But once that happens, it, it, it, it creates quite a lot of shifts. Um, and then for younger, yeah, go on.

Alastair GreenerI was gonna say, and what, what's the merger? Well, actually no, finish with the younger, well, what's the, the, the, the most difficult nut to crack when it comes to the younger generation?

Patrick QuintonAgain, it's helping them un it comes back to helping them understand. The other generations and how they were raised as well. And it's that coming together. I think something that always stands out is, um, you know, leaving at five o'clock, leaving on the dot 'cause there's the beliefs from previous genera, other generations that like to show commitment, you have to stay late. And, but that's not how younger people view it. So it's, they see it as having work-life balance and viewing, you know, work as a marathon, not a sprint. Having boundaries. It's helping them understand that actually it's a kind of a choice if you in the, in this environment, this is, if you would do, would like, if you would like to get ahead, then staying late kind of goes a long way and helping them understand the importance of teamwork in a work environment. It's, and kind of focusing more on what they can give rather than that mindset of what they can get. Because I do see that. There's a bit of a mindset of almost forgetting sometimes that you are paid, paid to do the job, and there's a bit of a mindset of I a lot expecting a lot more. So I think that's just some brutal honesty, which I think really lands coming from, you know, myself and my co-founder and people in our team because we are of that generation just to say, look, we've expect less. From the world and expect more from yourself and to really, you know, give, and that it's a value exchange and it's almost asking yourself, well, what value are you giving?

Alastair GreenerYes, you're absolutely right. It is it, it is completely about a value exchange and it's also about that relationship. And the one thing that we know Gen Z crave are good relationships. So if there's that positive relationship between a. Boss and their team member, then the chances are they'll want to work with them. They'll want to do the job because they've got that positive relationship. And you know, to me, if you focus on the relationship, actually everything else slots into place. 'cause you've got that trust and that needs to be established from the very first moment, you know, in that onboarding week. I just wanna finish up with, um, a, a little bit of a future thing. You know, you, you're seeing newer people coming into the workforce. People who've been around a while, hope they're starting to get that this generation are here to stay. That actually there's going to have to be some give and take and that, you know, we have to appreciate that change has taken place and it's been quite a seismic shift in many respects. What are some of the trends that you are seeing coming in, in terms of maybe challenges that are going to exist between generations in the workplace in the next few years? Is there anything that you can see on the horizon there?

Patrick QuintonHmm. Any additional challenges in the next few years?

Alastair GreenerOr maybe how the challenge might evolve from where it is now.

Patrick QuintonI mean, it does come back to that question you said about ai, actually, you know, that, that will be really interesting to see how early career roles evolve as some of the, I call them more mundane admin tasks as they, you know, maybe eradicated. Like how are they, how are. How are those roles going to evolve? And I also think something I was talking to my co-founder about, something that I do think will needs to change is moving from a time-based value system to a more merit meritocratic, um, value-based system because there's so much presenteeism in the workplace at the moment and tr. Valuing people and judging their value by how much time they're spending in the office or at work. But that is just something that really does not resonate with young people. They want, you know, they wanna work smart. They don't want to just do work for the sake of it when they feel like there's better ways of doing it or more efficient ways of doing it. So that is a whole, you know, future of work conversation around like, how is, how is work valued? And I think particularly as there's a lot of hybrid working, that's something I, I really see that becoming more of an issue because I think a lot of young people are getting disenfranchised with just having to. There's so much, you know, working from home, scrolling your, um, finger on your mouse to show that you're around and what, that's not valuable for a business. And that's not, that doesn't make young people feel good because they want to add value. So that's something I'm really intrigued to see how organizations, um, really evolve and to make Yeah.

Alastair GreenerWell, I, I have a phrase for that, which is, you know, 'cause I'm a great believer in people spending more time, especially younger people, spending more time in the office. But on their terms, and the phrase I use is create FOMO to combat hogo. So in other words, if you create an environment at work where young people want to be in and they do the, the default is they want to be there. The challenge is that when they get there, their millennial and Gen X bosses. Aren't there and they're doing Zoom calls from the office and they become extremely disillusioned with that. And then if you can create that right atmosphere with the right relationship building, they then form relationships in the workplace. They're far more likely to stay and be invested in what they do because they recognize they're part of a team. But it's very difficult to feel that if you are working from home. And of course, the one thing we know about young people coming into workplace. Often they don't know what they don't know. Um, so you, you know, creating that, that right environment. But I think mandating is very difficult. And you know, to your point about the workplace, I think the reality is the workplace will have to go through more change. I think we're still in the aftershocks of COVID-19. We're still trying to find that. That level of what's right and what's not. And I think rather than doing a hybrid of what was happening in COVID and what happened before is actually as you said, creating that new, new way of working.

Patrick QuintonYeah, no, you, I'm so with you about young people being in the office. You've got, you have to be able to be around people that you can learn from and build those relationships, as you said. People, they want great relationships and so hard to do that when you are, when you're doing it virtually and you can't read people's body language properly. You know, it's how we've, you know, it's how we've evolved. So I'm so with you on that and that that's something we really do encourage a lot of our clients to really. Make sure that they're in the office as well. And if you are young people asking 'em to come in, that they have to be there and there's time for mentorship and there's time for feed, like feedback or there's training sessions and making it, yeah. I co I like, I like the phrase that you used. Yeah. It's creating, creating fomo and giving them a reason to wanna come in. It's really

Alastair GreenerAnd you know, I, I knew when you were going to be a guest on my podcast. I knew that we were going to agree on so much because obviously we're in the, in a similar space. But you've given me some interesting perspectives and also some perspectives from a, from a Gen Z, which is always very, very welcome. And it's, and it's just great to hear those perspectives. So, Patrick, thanks so much. I wish you all the best with your work, with your team and, uh, keep up the good work and, and together we will s. Bread, that word of the positivity that Gen Z can bring the workplace, if only everybody gets around the table, has that conversation and builds that relationships.

Patrick QuintonAmen to that. Um, yeah, I was.

Alastair Greenerway to finish.

Patrick QuintonIt was great to be on the podcast. Alice. Thanks for having me, and it's great to chat as always.

Alastair GreenerAbsolute pleasure. I know we'll be having lots more conversations in the future. Uh, for, for the moment, Patrick, uh, thank you so much indeed for being my guest. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. And don't forget, we'll be back in two weeks time with another podcast. Bye for now. The Alastair Greener Generationally Speaking podcast was presented by me, Alastair Greener. It was recorded at Granary Studios and produced by James Jones. Please follow us and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. To find out more, visit generationally speaking.co.uk.