Alex Staniforth: Climbing Mountains and Breaking Stereotypes

Automatically transcribed, so there may be the odd slip.

Alastair GreenerHello and welcome to the Alastair Greener Generationally Speaking podcast, where we look to bridge the generation gap by debunking myths, tackling stereotypes, and sharing practical tips and hacks on how we can build stronger intergenerational connections. And today I'm talking to a record breaking adventure, and he really is. Record breaking, uh, ultra runner, speaker, author, and founder of the Mental Health Charity, mind Over Mountains. And he's certainly no stranger to overcoming challenges, although I'm hoping this isn't too much of a challenge for him, uh, because he's a pro in that as well. Alex t Lovely to see you.

Alex StaniforthIt's nice to be here, Alastair. And uh, yeah, it's been a few weeks since our last challenge, so, um, still trying to work out where things are and what day of the week it is. So, um, yeah, please, you know, it's be with me, but, uh, yeah, it's great to chat.

Alastair GreenerUm, and by the way, we, we'll come to your generation stuff in in a second, but just before we do that, we should just mention, you said it's been a couple of weeks since your last challenge, 45 days. And tell us what did you do in 45 days?

Alex StaniforthI had a little mountain exertion. Uh, um, it was so. The challenge was actually climbing all 446 mountains, um, in England and Wales in one human power push. So I ran the mountains, I cycled in between them, which is about 3000 kilometers, uh, about a hundred thousand meters percent, which is equivalent to about 11 times Everest. Um, and the fastest time before that was six months, uh, for we, we knocked the, uh, time down by about four and a half. And, uh, we've raised about 36,000 pounds so far, which, uh. Was the goal. So, um, so yeah, so it was, it was, it was quite a long one and, um, probably the longest thing I've done in quite a while. Really,

Alastair GreenerI love that in quite a while. Uh, well congratulations for doing that. And we will put a plug for your charity in the show notes, um, as well so people can actually support the work that you're doing 'cause it's incredibly important work. So today, Alex, really what we wanna talk about is, is about you, your generation, uh, because you are a, a xal. So you are, I believe, about 30.

Alex StaniforthI turned 30, um, 30 days into my challenge or something like that. So I was actually on the mountains, uh, which is partly my reason for doing it really.

Alastair GreenerLovely. So we're gonna talk about what that means, being on that cusp between being a millennial and being Gen Z. And we're gonna talk a lot about, especially you, um, in business and how you interact with different generations. And of course, with your charity, because leading a major charity doing incredible jobs with mind over mountains, the reaction you get from different people. And we're gonna finish off as always with some tips and hacks on how people can interact with different generations better. So how Gen Zs can interact better with other generations, but also if people wanna interact with you, what can they, what can they do to improve that? Let's start off with, um, you as a, as, as a person. Growing up because I'm a great believer that, um, you are very much the product of your upbringing. Not just, um, the era in which you grew up, but also, um, family life and what was going on. So give us an overview of what life was like growing up for a young Alex Danforth.

Alex StaniforthSure. Yeah. Thank you. I think. The best way to describe it would be, uh, overcoming challenges, adversity, and nothing serious, you know? And, and you know, I was really fortunate, you know, don't get me wrong. I had a, a great start in life. I was brought up in Chester. Um, I was an only child, you know, my parents gave me everything I needed and I had a very comfortable start really. Um, and so there, there's no obvious signs of challenges and there was no sign that I'd go on to do all these mad things I've done since in the outdoors and adventures. But, um. I think everything changed when I was about nine and had epilepsy, and that was only quite mild, but that was a catalyst for a whole host of challenges, uh, like anxiety and panic attacks. I was badly bullied from the day I started school until the day I left school, um, which played havoc with my self-esteem, self-confidence, et cetera. Um, I actually hated sports, you know, to begin with. I was the kid that, you know, came second to last in cross country in year seven. I I was useless. I've also had a stammer ever since I've been able to speak, uh, pretty much again all the way through school, which is something I now have to deal with every single day, uh, despite somehow being a speaker. And so that made school quite challenging for me. And the real kind of turning point was when I was about 14 when I found the outdoors and I found outdoor challenges on a hill walk in the late district. That was the whole kind of mindset shift in terms of what was possible and realizing that, you know, we can't choose our challenges in life, but we can always choose our response to that. And from then on, I, I kept raising the bar. I wanted to find what was possible and what was possible. And then along the way, giving something back, you know, through fundraising and ultimately now by trying to inspire people through speaking and writing as well. Um. But how do I, how do, how would I describe my childhood I'd, you know, I'd say kind of normal, really. Um, that's, that's a very simple answer, isn't it?

Alastair GreenerNo, that's fine. And because sometimes it's the extremities of things that happen that might influence you, but also, you know, plain the simple normality. And you know, it, it's quite interesting you're talking about your struggles growing up in school. Do you think that's different today? 'cause I know you do some work in schools and things. Do you think we've moved on from, from that era? Do you think you would've been still had those same struggles if you were say 13 today?

Alex StaniforthI do still speak in quite a few schools. I've spoken at two this week alone, and I guess the reason I'm. I'm always keen, keen to speak in schools is because I'm not that far away from their age group. I can kind of understand it and hopefully they can see that I'm not too far away from them and therefore if I can do, do these things and overcome this, but they're probably, you know, dealing with the same things. Um, especially bullying in mental health, which are massive issues in schools. Then they can think, well, okay, I can achieve that too. And there's no good if they hear somebody that's, you know, three times their age 'cause they just can't relate to that. Um. It's hard to say, but I know that the, the issues of bullying and things are, are probably even bigger of an issue now. I think the only thing that's changed is the growth of social media, which actually back, back then, I make myself sound old now. Back then, it was less of a thing. Um, I literally only just got a, I only actually had a mobile phone in my first. In my first year of high school. And back then that felt a bit of a, you know, it was like a, it was like a big shift in society, you know? And, and you know, and nowadays it's almost in our hands. As soon we, you know, we can walk and talk. And I think that ability for people to absorb and make comparisons online and not really have the perspective of the real world and for all the bullying and things that go on behind that curtain, you know, where there, where there's no kind of consequences. Um. That's gotta be challenging for, you know, for kids. And we, we hear stories about that and, um, would it been harder now? I would probably say it is harder now, you know, because I also think that there's a lack of resilience. Um, as the will gets more developed, I think we make our life easier in some ways, and therefore that reduces our ability to cope and to actually overcome those things. And the pandemic has just made that even worse.

Alastair GreenerI would absolutely agree that it, it probably is a little bit harder, purely because it manifests itself in a different way and that, um, young generations today don't have any, you know, they don't walk away. You left. You left school, at least you had sanctuary at home. Where today, kids trying to find sanctuary at home, when there's messages coming through on various apps and things, um, you know, they don't get away quite as much. But that's a whole, um, other debate. I wanna talk a little bit about your, your generation, because you were talking there about how you bridge going into schools, but obviously you are running your own business, you're a speaker, and in the speaking world there aren't that many younger speakers. So do you get any generational. Bias, if you like, unconscious bias towards you from say, people booking as if to say, Hey, what life experience have you got? You can't come and be a speaker. You know, you're not up for that. I mean, what sort of conversations go on there and is it an issue or, or actually not.

Alex StaniforthI think you're right that there's not that many speakers who are 30 or below, and I'm, I have to try and make the most of that because it's pretty soon. And, and, and even now I'm feeling that, I'm feeling it's, you know, it's changing and I'm having less of that appeal because I'm getting older. Um, I, I'm told I look quite young, so I'm also trying to keep hold of that as well. So I think what, what

Alastair GreenerKeep moisturizing.

Alex Staniforthkeep trying it, it's all the time. It's all the kind of like, time outside. It's really good for you. But, um, I think what really hit me quite recently, it was actually a couple years ago now, it was when I was, I think I was prospecting for some work and I was kind of cold calling, which I, I hate doing. And you know, I was emailing somebody about a conference and you know, I sent my bio and my story in a short paragraph and you know, they said, oh, you know, you are still quite young. And it was, the quiet word really bothered me because when I started out, I was always the young adventurer, the young speaker, and then I had to recheck all my bios and things and start thinking, can I still call myself a young adventurer? I mean, what would you class as J? I'm like, oh, actually, probably not, because it's better that I meet expectations rather than disappoint, you know? And

Alastair GreenerMiddle-aged adventure doesn't have the same ring to it, does it?

Alex Staniforthnot really, you know? And I think, I think it. A lot of the people who is a problem for, I won't be aware of 'cause they just won't contact me. So it's hard to know whether it's a problem, but I think at the same time, um, I definitely noticed in the last couple of years that when I'm speaking for clients, they say, you know, when, you know, when they chose me for an event or when they book me, it's because. They have a lot of younger staff, or if they have graduates who are also in the kind of age, and therefore they want somebody that people can relate to. You know, their staff might be, you know, a young kind of tech company and they're all like in their thirties. And actually I'm closer to them than perhaps somebody who's, you know, twice my age. And also I think they. They're really keen from diversity as well. I think, um, speaking clients in particular, like they are a lot more keen on diversity in different backgrounds and different ages now, rather than, you know, a stereotype, you know, speaker. Um, and so for that.

Alastair Greenercareful not looking in my direction as you say all that. Alex, I notice.

Alex StaniforthNo. Well, I think, I think in general, like people don't wanna hear all the like, big names and all the, you know, really successful people. They wanna just hear everyday people that have been through kind of challenges and, you know, and I think that generally they're, you know, they, they say that they just want something really different. And because I'm younger, I think. Becomes that difference, but in terms of life experience, yeah, I think, I feel that ICOs, the voice, I think, I think any problems are mostly internal and how we feel about ourselves rather than what other people are thinking. Um, for sure. I'm sure there's lots of people I've contact to who just dismissed me because they see my age rather than seeing the things I've done in that time. And I think we should be looking at what people have done rather than their age because. You know, I know people that are, you know, who are probably 10 years under me, who've done more than me. And frankly, it's how we use our time. It's experience we've gained in that time is what matters. 'cause a, a lot of people go through life for a very long time, just dwindling along and not really pushing themselves, and therefore probably have less experience to share. I, you know, um, you know, I'd argue, so I would say that, um. It's been an advantage so far. Um, on the most part. And I've been lucky 'cause I've, I've got a few things to talk about, you know, and, um, I find I relate, a lot of my friends are actually older than me because I feel like I'm on their kind of mindset, you know? And my values and my purpose are more towards that because of my experiences.

Alastair GreenerAnd we'll talk a little bit about your, um, relationships with other people of other, um, ages in a while. I just wanna go back a second in terms of when you are working with your clients as a speaker, do you leverage your age at all? Do you talk about your generation when you are speaking with your clients?

Alex StaniforthI, I wouldn't say I really get asked about it, you know, I think if I'm speaking to a company where the person booking me is my age, or I can tell that, you know, if they're quite junior, um, it often feels weird for me almost if, you know, if I'm, you know, if the booker is perhaps, you know, I dunno. I think if they're younger than me, it feels a little bit strange, and I think it might be because. They're kind of in a proper job and I'm, and I'm not. And also when it gets to talking about, you know, actually finances and things, I think it just feels a bit like we're still back at sixth form. Um, and I find it really challenging sometimes. Um, and in terms of leveraging it and, you know, talking about it, I think when I'm actually speaking on the stage, when I'm actually at my events. I just call it out straight away. You know, I called out, you know, the elephant in the room, and I actually mentioned that in my introduction. I'm like, okay. Generally when you have a guest speaker, you'd expect somebody older, somebody more experienced, somebody successful, not someone you know, who's, you know, into age and you know, who failed Everest twice. Um, but clearly that is part of the story. It's that being human and being unassuming and actually, well, people see my age and say, oh, you, you know, you've achieved so much. I'm actually thinking I need to achieve a lot more. Therefore that is the age thing that makes people really kind of wake up and think, okay, how am I spending my life? What have I been doing? Do I really wanna be doing this? Or what do I need to change? I think it just, um, it kinda shakes them up a little bit, but, um, doesn't come up that often, you know, and I don't feel that age is, is just a number to me.

Alastair GreenerAnd I think it's becoming more and more that, you know, wherever you go, age is far more, uh, far less relevant. We're not defined by our age as much as maybe we were in terms of what we wear, how we sound, and all those kind of things. I think the age brackets have blurred an awful lot more. Looking at your charity work that you do. First of all, what drove you as a young person to set up a charity that's not, again, that's not stereotypical of your age. That's something that people do later in life when they want to give back, uh, they realize what they've received and they wanna give back. What was your driver as a, as, as, as a young millennial, gen Z, that kind of cusper age? What would you say?

Alex StaniforthIt was definitely never part of the plan. And I've fundraised for charities through my challenges, literally since I started, you know, when I did the Free Peaks back in 2011. Um, so going back quite a while and, and so it's always been part of me to give back, um, starting the charity and I would've been 24, 25 at the time, you know, definitely wasn't part of the plan, but, um, you know, it was, I think the driver was actually on Everest, was realizing, you know, just how. Fragile life is, and actually how success isn't really about chasing the next big thing. It's not about, you know, reaching the top of the mountain, but it's about creating something bigger that, you know, bigger than ourselves and leaving something bigger behind. And a charity for me feels like a way of creating that kind of, I guess as a legacy, you know, and, and again, it wasn't part of the plan, but the opportunity came up. It felt like the right thing to do at the time, and the demand was there. So. Like everything I've ever done, I've never let age become a barrier or you know, oh, well, I'm too young for that. I mean, after trying over 18, nothing ever feels too young and. Back, back on Everest. I mean that was much, much more of a barrier because trying to, you know, and literally sitting in, you know, in boardrooms with CEOs of multimillion pound firms in a suit, you know, when I was actually, uh, I actually took the day off school 'cause I was meant to be doing an a level exam that day to try and, you know, pitch for sponsorship to go and climb the world ties peak. There was much, much more I'm sure going on of okay. You're too young, you haven't got the experience. For me, I saw that as, that was a selling point. I was gonna be the second youngest Brit. So, um, so I, I've never seen it as a barrier. And with the charity, again, I, I don't even really consider it. But again, it's that internal conflict of. I don't have experience, I don't have a clue what I'm doing. Not necessarily 'cause of age, but just because I've never worked in that environment before. I've never actually had a team. I've always kind of worked for myself. I'm the worst boss I've ever actually worked for, you know, and, and so it was more my lack of experience rather than my age. That was the problem. Um, but at the same time, the team have always been trying to elevate me and try to push me into that kinda actually founder status. Um, also the charity, it was, is about helping people of all ages and. If I've got a story to tell, if I can relate to that, then I think that's all that really matters.

Alastair GreenerAnd the fact that you're doing good while you are doing all of that is, is fantastic. What about your peer group, your friendship group, people of your age, what do they make of you? Because you, you know, you certainly, you know, must be a bit of an outlier in terms of not just your career choice, but just everything that you are doing. There aren't many 30 year olds doing what you're up to.

Alex StaniforthI think after Everest, what I realized is that we're all on borrowed time, you know? And. I just wanna do as much as I can in the time I've got, you know, and I remember back in the Everest days, I had somebody say to me, oh, you know, what's the rush? You've got lots of time yet. I'm like, you know, how do we know? How do we know? Ever since school, I've always wanted, I've always been different. I've always wanted to be different. And Everest, I guess, initially was my way of being different and kind, kind of raising middle finger to all the bullies, if I'm really honest. Um, and so I left sixth form. I was meant to start, uh, a degree the following year. I, uh, pulled out of that. Um, and I've never looked back. I don't regret that at all. So I've always taken my own path and always wanted to take that, that own path. Um, and so because of that, I've not really, I don't really have a peer group who are my, you know, my own age. I would say that, you know, most of my friends are older than me. Um, again, I don't see that as anything but a number, you know? But what was. What was interesting was I, I was speaking to a, a guy a few years ago who ended up, uh, being, ended up actually sponsoring our charity. And he said to me how, you know, people in their twenties and below tend to be more kind of like internally focused, so they're more kind of focused on them and their needs and kind of their place in the world. And I think as we get older into kind of, you know, thirties onwards, we start to be, become more, you know, um, you know, I guess like, um, externally focused. So we're more focused on actually our purpose, you know, what we're here for in the world and trying to kind of give and give back and trying to make something bigger. And I think because of my experiences I did that a lot sooner. And therefore, from, I guess a maturity perspective, um, when you've been through those things, they teach you a hell of a lot, you become a lot more resilient and you realize what's really important, which isn't all your views on TikTok, you know, and I think that's just kind of kickstarted me a little bit further down the path. And so. I'm only really in regular, um, you know, in regular contact with one friend from school, uh, who I went on my very first hill walk with back in 2010. You know, I don't really have any, any, any contacts in that group. And, you know, I do speak to people of that age or below, but I just think that we have different values, different, uh, views on the world and therefore it's hard to really connect.

Alastair GreenerThat I, I mean, I love all of that. The, you know, your, your SHE determination and, you know, this whole thing of, you know, sticking a finger up or effectively to the bullies. You know, that it's reminded me of a quote i I used in another podcast recently, which was, you know, the best revenge is massive success. I think it was Jim Rohn who once said that, and it, and it's so, so true and it can be a real driver. I think for people. Um, Alex, I'd like to finish off really with, with a few life hacks, tips, whatever you want to call 'em, because one of the things I always like to help people with is whether they're your generation and how to communicate to others. Or whether they are people who want to communicate, uh, with, with your generations. So, so first of all, for somebody who may be looking to either connect with you, who's younger than you, um, what would your advice be to them if they want to aspire to being someone like you? How would they communicate? How would they talk in a way that's going to be effective for them?

Alex StaniforthIs that to me, uh, impersonal, just in general, you know, is a

Alastair GreenerNo, in, in, in, in, in general for them towards you. So if, if they want to get the best from you in terms of help, advice and and so on, what's the best thing for them to do to connect with you?

Alex StaniforthIt might not be. know, everyone in general, you know, in my age group or generation might just be mean individually. But I think what I've noticed in younger generations is there's a lack of commitment. Like there's a a bit of entitlement and I wanna help people, I wanna speak to people that really, really want something or willing to do, do the hard work. And I, I see this a lot in schools as well, and I think I wanna see people that are committed, that are willing to put the hard work in, um, you know, and. I think in general there's, since the pandemic, there's kind of a general kind of flakiness, there's a lack of respect and you know, if you're not gonna do something or if you're not gonna turn up or respect something, then just say yes or no. But just don't, just not, you know, don't just kind of stop speaking and stop communicating. I think

Alastair GreenerWhy do you think they, why do you think some people are like that?

Alex StaniforthI think our culture and social media is allowing it to happen too easily with no consequences. And I think it's. I think it's that social media piece and, and you know, being able to do things and without any consequences for doing them. Um, you know, and that kind of quick gratification that we get from that world. I think, uh, that's only a theory. I'm definitely not an expert in this space at all. I think in terms of communicating it, I think for me, just be committed, be respectful, and be ambitious, you know, and I do think that. My generation now, uh, are very much purpose focused so that we, we want to be doing things that are, you know, uh, ethically right? Are, are in line in our values and are, you know, making a difference. And you hear that a lot of, you know, you know, young people not wanting to work in big corporates for that same reason.

Alastair GreenerAnd what about older people looking at you? You know those ones who might, um, experience a bit of, or they, they might be generationally biased towards younger people, making assumptions that clearly would be misplaced assumptions if it's someone like you. How would you suggest, or what tips would you give them to communicate more effectively to your generation?

Alex StaniforthUm. I mean, I think we are the generation of email and online communication, you know, and having a stammer, I'm really bad on the phone anyway, so it might just be my bias there. Um, I think we are very much. Purpose driven and we are less focused on, you know, on money and, you know, the kind of nine to five way of life. I would say that we are probably more focused on actually wanting to make a difference and wanting to be living with purpose and, and be valued for that. So I think just acknowledging that in the communication, you know, and there is still I think, a little bit of culture where it's like, oh, you know, um. You know, where we are kind of seen as soft, you know, we're not as tough as, you know, the older days. And I, you know, I think there is a lot, often a lot of discouragement when we try to do things that aren't unconventional. You know, I've had so many people try to kind question and challenge me on my life choices because it's not the conventional thing to do that they may have done before and it's not perhaps stable or secure, you know, it's a bit risky. Um, I would. Be encouraging other generations just to, to allow that, to enable that. Not to challenge it because actually I think it's really important to us. Yeah.

Alastair GreenerI think it's often envy that leads to that. You see that quite often. I, I've experienced it, um, watching other people where older people are almost disparaging about some things that young people are doing because they have an opportunity that may, they may be didn't have. And it's like, well, that's not a reason. Um, you know, if they've got that opportunity, let them do it. Last question is, what's the best thing about being 30 and what's the most challenging thing about being 30?

Alex StaniforthWhat a question. Um, I mean, not to sound like a broken record, I said it doesn't mean a huge amount, but, um, you know, I've only been 30 for a. In fact, it was a month ago today, so there you go. I've been 30 for a month. Um, so I'm not getting a chance to experience what 30 has to offer. But, um, I dunno, for me it feels like I, I think the positive thing is it feels like a reflection point. And that can be a challenging thing as well because you get to. A big milestone in life and you might think, oh, blind me, you know, I'm not where I should be, or I'm not where I want to be and you know, everyone else is doing this, this, this, and this, and you know, I failed. Um, I think those reflections can be positive or negative. You know, for me I wanted to do the 4, 4 6 to mark my 13 in style and to raise awareness of all the people who are suffering in their mental health. And, you know, I'm hearing more and more about my peers who. Are feeling lost. You know, they've kind of been forced down the conventional route and they've maybe got a career or university and they've just not found what life's all about yet. And you know, they're really struggling. And so that has an effect on mental health and suicide, you know, which is the biggest killer of people in the 35 in the uk. Um, so I think that's perhaps the negative and the positive at the same time, you know? Um, but being 30, I feel like we're in the, in the kind of peak. Kind of zone almost. It feels a little bit like we're, we're kind of less of an apprentice now, you know, in your twenties it seems. It just has that feeling to me. But because I'm not in the corporate environment, uh, I could be completely wrong, but to me it just feels like I'm in a really nice kind of transition. Um, and. I think that's about, that's the top of my head. I mean, we have some brilliant bands came out in the years that I was born, and so we can be proud of those. And that's probably one good thing as well. Like Oasis have come back around so we can, you know, we'd be proud of that. We were from the same age, you know, that same era. Um, and that's the, the top, that's the thing off the top of my head, really.

Alastair GreenerNo, I think that's perfect. And I actually think 30 is a great age. I, I, I do remember it sometime in the past, and I remember it being a great, a great time. So, Alex, it's been an absolute pleasure. Keep up that amazing good work you're doing, especially with the charity, the speaking and everything that you're doing to raise awareness of, of mental health. Um, it's, it's absolutely brilliant and I think you are, um, a great ambassador for your generation. So, uh, thank you very much.. And thank you very much indeed for joining us. We'll be back again in two weeks time. Bye for now. The Alastair Greener Generationally Speaking podcast was presented by me, Alastair Greener. It was recorded at Granary Studios and produced by James Jones. Please follow us and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. To find out more, visit generationally speaking.co.uk.