Carole Spiers: How Stress Affects Every Generation Differently

Automatically transcribed, so there may be the odd slip.

Alastair GreenerHello and welcome to the Alastair Greener generationally speaking podcast where we look at bridging the generation gap by debunking myths, tackling stereotypes, and sharing practical tips on how we can build stronger intergenerational connections. And today I'm joined by a very good friend of mine who is Just an amazing individual in terms of what she's done. She's a motivational speaker. She's a CEO of stress management consultancy recognized for her expertise in resilience health and well being a BBC guest broadcaster and author of show stress who's the boss? I think we all need a bit of that She's also the founder of the International Stress Awareness Week and a regular contributor to to national media. And we've worked together on the International Stress Management Association Summit on I don't know how many years, but we have. Carol, lovely to see you. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. And I'm going to start off. By talking about your generation, you're a baby boomer, which means you were born somewhere between 1946 and 1964. We won't specify when, but I always like to ask my guests whether they feel typical of their generation.

Carole SpiersOkay. Well, yes. You've got the age gap right there. So, yes. Do I feel typical? Yes, I probably do actually, because in those times, at those times when I was born, life was very different then to how it is today. And does that make me feel old? Well, the answer is yes. Yes. Um, but maybe I am, um, but it's really looking at the fact is, is that when it was like that all those years ago, it was the post war era, and, uh, we were in some ways, we were quite revolutionary in what we wanted, and we had flower power, and we had the 60s, and we had the Beatles, and everything really was going to be in a way that it was, it was really something that we were going to be making a difference to people, So we had no phones, of course, and we had no computers, if we can imagine a time without phones and computers. Um, but it really was a time of tradition and doing things that we felt were right and doing things that we felt was important. I was a member of CND, I wore my badge with, uh, with pride. And we wanted to make sure that what we did in those times was make a difference for ourselves and for the future. So am I probably a typical baby boomer? In many ways I am. Here's your however. I was born, I was born, I had, I was in a one parent family, my father died when I was five, so in some ways I was slightly different to everybody else because that's in some ways. Increased my, uh, what shall I say, my independence, because I had to be, my mum was, my mum had three children when my dad died. So therefore, it wasn't quite the same as everybody else, and, hmm, you know something, Alice, in a way, I probably felt that it was, I was slightly different to other people, and maybe I still do, but maybe I'll go beyond that. So I think, am I Where were

Alastair Greeneryou placed in the family, in the, in the lineage of the children? Were you oldest, youngest, middle?

Carole SpiersMiddle. So where is middle child? So

Alastair Greenerdo you have middle child syndrome?

Carole SpiersI don't, I'm not quite sure why I don't , but I don't have middle child syndrome. Um, no, I, if you ask my sisters, they would say, no, no, you are a favored child. And I think what's wrong? I shouldn't be favored child in middle child syndrome. Um, so no, I don't, I don't have that. But I do remember Alastair. I really do remember, um, feeling different. My, my girlfriends, my friends would go off ice skating. We couldn't afford to do that. And so I didn't resent them for it. I didn't resent, resent my life. It was just different. And I felt different. And do I feel different now? I think it, my background has shaped me into the person that I am. So therefore I am independent. Um, I am pretty resilient. Doesn't mean things can't get to me. And why is that? Yes, because it's happened because of background, childhood, and upbringing.

Alastair GreenerAnd people forget, you know, I talk about my five circles of generational influence, the way that we are all, um, effectively framed by the circumstances in which we grew up in, um, where we were in the family, um, lineup as it were, where we were born, um, our parenting, our school. All of those kind of things. But looking at today, where do you fit in, in terms of being the typical boomer? Because a lot of people think, well, boomers, they're getting old, they're sort of, you know, towards retirement, if not already retired. Um, they probably struggle with tech. I mean, these are some of the stereotypes. Would you agree with any of that? Does that, does that seem familiar to you? Or do you think, no, actually, I'm, I'm different to that?

Carole SpiersWell, I'm not sure about whether I'm different to that because If I were to ask my grandchildren how I'm coping with tech, they'd say, well, she probably can just about manage. I'm not as good as them. Yes, they can help me. They're not, or don't always have the time to help me. Um, but nevertheless, I would say that, do I feel I'm getting left behind, uh, with tech? I don't feel I'm getting left behind, but I do feel there's an awful lot to learn in order to just stand still and to keep up. So it's not so much left behind. It's like, I have to work at it. So if somebody comes up with a new app, I might think, is that relevant? Do I want that? Somebody comes up with a piece of tech. Is that useful for me or not? Tech is a phenomenal tool. Absolutely phenomenal tool. And I do enjoy using it. However, I get stuck sometimes. Why does this not work? Why does that not work? Is it because of my age? Pass. And don't know. It could be. Or it could be that it's just not, not a piece of software that is going to be suitable for me. So I've got to the stage now, Alastair, where I can think to myself. I know what I'm good at. Spreadsheets is not one of those things. So then, I will ask other people to actually do the spreadsheets for me. Because that's not the way my brain works. So call in I

Alastair Greenerthink that's something It's something that comes with experience, isn't it? Working smarter, not harder. And then working with people you know who are actually better at some things than yourself when, when we're young we're very determined I'm going to do it myself, I'm going to be independent but actually as you get older you think hang on a second I'll just get someone else to do that for me. Yeah but it's also when you're younger

Carole SpiersAlastair, when you're younger, you see, I remember thinking to myself when I was younger, I remember thinking, you know, as I get older I'll know everything and I remember those, maybe I was a child at the time, I don't know, maybe I wasn't, but I remember thinking that I will know everything as I get older. As you get older, you then obviously, you appreciate the fact that you don't know everything and it's, it's a real, it's a reality and it's okay not to know everything. So if age has given me anything, it gives me the fact that it's okay to be, to, to be not okay and to know who to call upon as and when you need them. And I think that really is key, not to see it, not to call upon, or ask it for help as a sign of weakness, but to look at it as a sign of strength, because what has happened over the years, and I'm not quite sure, Alastair, what age this did happen, but all of a sudden I've become wise. I'm not quite sure when I became wise, I'm no wiser than I was five years ago, ten years ago, or even fifteen years ago. But all of a sudden, it's like you're the seasoned professional, who stands up on platform, and you're now the wise person who we go to. So I might not have all the tech skills, but I do, I do have bags of experience, and expertise, appreciating I don't have all the answers. So it's really It's

Alastair Greenera lovely thing about being older though, isn't it? Is the fact you become a little bit more relaxed in your age of who you are, you're more familiar with who you are, all those kind of things. One of the Issues that I'm always fascinated by is this perception, the perception that young have of old, of old being young, and we forget that the eras in which we were born were very different, and therefore placing somebody isn't actually as easy as it seems, because the world in which they're growing up is a very different world to the one that we grew up in.

Carole SpiersI think that's right, and I think that we need to be aware of the different generations, and the value that different generations bring, and the cross generation communication, which is what we need to have. So therefore, I'm always a firm believer in having these cross generational teams, either at home or at work, right across the board. So everybody can collaborate, everybody can talk to each other, value what it is and who you are for the expertise and the experience that you bring. That's really the most important. And for the younger people to value the older, older generation and vice versa. Because older people very, it's very easy. I mean, I'm still working. A lot of people are not still working at my age and have chosen retirement. I don't choose, choose retirement. I just choose another chapter of work to do. But that's just who I am. So therefore, I think everybody needs to accept everybody for who they are. So, the young need to accept the older generation for the expertise and the experience. You can't package experience. There are so many stories that go with experience. And the older generation needs to value the younger generation. And I just think that this It's just so very, very important to have that. So therefore we can all connect with each other and help each other. So can I help somebody who's a youngster? Yes, I speak to schools, so yes I can do that. And can the schools speak to me because they have my experience? Yes. So, win win!

Alastair GreenerLet's, I want to talk about the, your work with the, with ISMA, the International Stress Management Association, in a while, and your work with stress, and particularly how stress affects different generations and how that manifests itself. We're very aware today, um, I'm reading a book at the moment, The Anxious Generation, you know, what's creating that anxiety. But we'll come to that in a moment, but very briefly, as we're talking about why's, um, Older people, you're working with U3A, tell us a little bit about that and what you've learned as a result of working with older, it's University of the Third Age, so you're, you're working with older people, tell us a little bit about that and also what you're learning, what you're appreciating and how that's helping you in your life.

Carole SpiersOkay, University of the Third Age has been in existence for countless years. I actually head up one of the local branches, which is Hamster Garden Suburb. And here we have a range of activities and subjects and tools for people to use right across the board. So people can join U3A of whatever age. The only. The only criteria that there is to joining U3A is the fact that you're not in full time employment. So that's the only criteria. It's not an age, it's not an age factor. So what do people need as they get older? They need companionship. They need to be able to talk to each other. They need to stimulate their brains. Just because a person gets older doesn't mean that their brain's not working. It's very easy to, uh, write people off because they're older or because they're not walking particularly well. It's going to happen to all of us at some particular point. So it's having patience with people. So people of the older generation need, that's why U3A comes into its own, really need that stimulation. So older people, it's very easy for older people to feel lonely. If they're feeling lonely, they can feel depressed. If they're depressed, they go to the doctor. The doctor gives them sleeping pills or gives them an antidepressant. And so the whole system continues. Uh, the circle continues. So what I'm saying is, is that U3A is an ideal opportunity, and it's right around the country and it's around the world as well, for you to get involved with, uh, another group of people. Learn French, learn German, go to Current Affairs, go to Pilates. Go to Philosophy. It's a bit like, oh my gosh, there's so many things to do, and there are so many things to do. And if I wasn't heading up the branch as I am, I probably would do more activities. But there really are, there are truly, truly, Alastair, not enough hours in the day. So really, I would say that I found it very, I didn't expect to find it so rewarding. But there's a lot of hard work that goes with it. But it is very rewarding because you really see people who are very grateful for what it is that you're doing. I'm not quite so sure with my work with the youth whether they are quite as grateful as people who are older. I haven't quite worked that one out yet. But I do know that older people very often get left behind. So for U3A, we've created a tea and tech session for them to go to. We're trying to come up with lots of ideas that are going to be helpful for them. You know, tech isn't easy for anybody. They knew this and knew that. So U3A, I think, is a fundamental and very important organization to our society.

Alastair GreenerSo great for anybody who's got maybe older relatives or somebody who's actually listening to this, um, to, to join that. Because there's a huge amount of evidence, isn't there, that suggests that if we use our brains as we get older and we keep using them, and you have that power, purpose and learning a language or learning a new skill will actually do that and will keep you a little bit younger. And as you say, the person within is sometimes quite different from the person without.

Carole SpiersAbsolutely. Absolutely. So really it is, as you say, for anybody who's of the older generation. It doesn't matter what age. It really doesn't matter. In fact, it could be people that are working in a hybrid way. So therefore, if you're working in a hybrid way and you've got two days at work and in the office and three days at home, well, maybe you'd like to join U3A. I appreciate that. You'll be with older generation, but it doesn't really matter because we're trying to look at cross generational. And, uh, you know, go out for a half an hour, go out for an hour and play a game of table tennis around the corner. So it's really looking at what is it that U three A can offer you, or as you rightly say, it could be for parents, it could be for grandparents.

Alastair GreenerAnd you obviously compared to many of the people you encounter at U three A, you are the youngster. You know, you are, you are the, you are the whipper snapper. So . So what have you learned that's helped you in, in terms of your communication skills, um, communicating with older people? Um, what lessons could. Have you learned from that that you can share?

Carole SpiersI think the lesson is, I'm a ca I'm a therapist, so really, use your use your counselling skills as much as possible. Older people can get upset over things because maybe they don't have huge amounts of other things in their lives, possibility. Or just everybody anybody can get annoy anybody, and that is true. Take people seriously. Listen to what they're saying, which is what I'm saying to any age group, but particularly for the older generation. Listen to what people are saying. Listen to what is actually being expressed. Uh, as they say, take it seriously and take action on it so the person doesn't feel left out, doesn't feel isolated, doesn't feel lonely. Include people. One of the, one of the services that we, we offer, one of the key things that we do offer to our guests is that we have a monthly talk. in one of the local churches around here. And so now we've created what is called an Easy Rider Scheme. What is the Easy Rider Scheme? That is actually helping people who can't get to the church by themselves and actually help, and actually encouraging others to give them a lift. It's a simple, it's a simple service. But people are so grateful. You know, thank you so much. My legs aren't working so well, but my brain is working extremely well. And I'd really like to hear the talk. So, in which case, no problem. We'll come and collect you. So, it's all sorts of things like that to create a greater and enhance a communication.

Alastair GreenerI like what you said about, um, older people, the way that you communicate with them and, and things that can be triggers for them. And certainly something I see with older people in my community is how something very simple can be a trigger and can be quite upsetting because they don't, their lives aren't as complex maybe in terms of all the various things going on. Um, but being sensitive to that is really important and that in a sense is a form of stress that they have, which It's a perfect link to talk about your work with stress. And I know there's lots of different things that you deal with in stress, but I'm particularly interested in the stress that you observe at different stages of people's lives, but also the different generations that people are at. So, that's a big, wide open question for you. What are you seeing?

Carole SpiersI'm seeing that there is generational stress. There is because sometimes there isn't a full appreciation and understanding where people are coming from. So the youth tend to want things done quick, quick, quick and done yesterday. Older people, or whatever age, doesn't matter, hasn't even got to be older people, but not that generation, uh, would actually think into themselves, well, we'd like to do things one step at a time. So, it's all down to the word communication, Alastair. Communication is key for everything, because every age group, every generation has something to offer. Different things, because they are a different generation. But every generation has something to offer. The question is, can we bring those generations together? And so they can value what each and every person brings to that particular subject. Um, and listening, you know, there's nothing more important if you say to me, what is the one word out of all of this? It's to listen. And I would say probably the younger generation find it more difficult to listen because they've been brought up on phones and computers and Messenger and Skype and everything else that goes with it and WhatsApp. So every single thing you can imagine. They're expecting instant gratification when you send a message, something happens. I get to that point as well, but it shouldn't be really. You know, years ago, let me say years ago, you used to send a letter, you used to put it in the post, put that little thing called a stamp on the corner, pop it in the post box, and you know, you used to wait. I mean I am amazed. I set up my business, my stress consultancy in 1987. I am truly amazed how I could actually run what became a successful consultancy without computer, without telephone, without any apps. How did I manage it? Yes, I had a PA and I traveled around the country and traveled around the world and I used phone boxes. It was extraordinary. But yes, it happened. So it's almost like, I'm like, By the

Alastair Greenerway, for younger people, a phone box is now where you find books and other things, but there used to be a phone in there.

Carole SpiersThere used to be a phone in there.

Alastair GreenerOh

Carole Spiersgosh, yes. There did used to be a phone in there. Now they are icons. Now they're left on the street. For you it's just like as a bit of an archive.

Alastair GreenerBut they did used to work. I love the one at Covent Garden where they've they've actually made them into an art installation where it looks like falling dominoes Because that's all you can use a phone box for now as a piece of art, but you touched on something there about The young and you know, they've got so many different things and therefore to actually just sit and focus. And I get a bit annoyed when people say young people can't focus because actually I think we've all become like that. They might have been the digital adopters where it was part of their DNA, but we've become that, you know, we are now all on our phones constantly and so on. What's the difference between the stress that we're feeling with tech and with constant bombardment of information versus young people? Getting that constant bombardment. How does that manifest itself when it comes to stress

Carole Spiersas far as stress is concerned? I see too many people youngsters who are really so caught up with this Expectation there's an expectation from management. There's an expectation from peer group Expectation that you'll take maybe you to answer your emails at six o'clock in the evening seven o'clock eight o'clock in the evening We have actually become a society now of really raised expectations. We've raised that bar so high that it's really quite difficult to manage it. It's quite difficult to manage it because it seems to get higher and higher the whole time. So are we really listening and communicating as we go along? We give it, as you say, it doesn't matter if we're the younger generation, the older generation. There's still that pressure on us. What does that pressure become? Well, too much pressure becomes stress. Does that happen to anybody and any age group? Yes, it does. So, therefore, in the time when you go to bed at night, instead of feeling tired, you feel exhausted, and you wake up in the morning when your batteries are not recharged, and you get to the stage where you're just not feeling well in yourself and you're exhausted the whole time, you may be coming towards burnout. Burnout can happen to anybody, younger or older. Chances are it'd be younger because the expectations of them, trying to prove themselves, trying to be all things to all people, which as I said in the earlier stages, I've got to the stage where I can't be all things to all people, and I know that is the case. And for me to sleep at night, it's really okay. I can go to bed without, without 20 emails, sitting there because they'll be there, they'll still be there in the morning. There is a pressure on younger people today to actually deliver. The competition is rife. Um, hybrid working comes into play. So those sorts of pressures don't, are not the same as adults, so adults, not the same as all the older generation who are looking at things like loneliness, lack of stimulation. We know that. The younger people, young, youngsters do have that pressure on them. And it's difficult. Would you

Alastair Greenersay it's true that, that the younger people tend to spend more time comparing themselves to other people like them? And although we all have those stresses and strains, older people aren't doing that same level of comparisons. They don't have that level of stress to do that, or, or is that something that's a bit of a work of fiction?

Carole SpiersNo, I think that younger people do have that, that, that stress or the older people don't have because the older person will think, well, it's really okay. It's not a problem. I can do it tomorrow and you don't need to accept me for who I am and have realistic expectations. When you're younger, you're really trying to prove yourself. You're trying to prove yourself either to be better or certainly to keep up with the competition. And if we look at social media, what is social media doing to us? It is really pushing ourselves and pushing ourselves. What's happening? What is, what is going on? Who's doing what? And all the, all your friends, inverted commas, your followers, inverted, well not inverted commas, all your followers. So therefore what I'm saying is, is that social media is really a driver. Older generation will use some social media, but not in quite the same way, not with the same freneticism that younger people do. You know, if you say to a group of teenagers, let's go out for dinner, they're all sitting around the table on their phones. I would say the older generation probably are not in quite the same, not in the same way, so we have

Alastair GreenerI think they are, that they're getting, we're getting worse. I was at a, I was in a restaurant the other day, and that's exactly what I saw was older people, because we actually wind up doing what they're doing. I'd like to pick you up on something that you said, which, um, I thought was particularly interesting. It was that whole thing of the way that they use the social media, the fact of the competition that they're doing compared to older people, and the fact that we use social media in different ways. And, by virtue of that, are you suggesting the way they use social media is actually more stressful than maybe older generations using social media?

Carole SpiersI think so. I'd say for myself, I use social media, uh, because I need to, because I need to keep in contact, because I want to keep in contact, but I'm not watching it 24 7. I'm truly not. I do go to bed at night, turn off my phone, no problem whatsoever. Um, so the younger generation, for what I'm told and what they say to me, find it very difficult to do that. If you say, if I say to a youngster, a younger person, and say to them, do you, can you leave your phone outside your door, a bedroom door at night, they'll say to me, no, no, can't do that, Carol, because I need it for my alarm, and I'll sort of show and say, well, actually, you can buy an alarm clock, so it's really, it's almost if you're so, so tied to this, to this, to this one thing, so therefore, there's a dependency that's coming in. We need to get some validation for who we are, uh, through our social media, whereas I have to say, I've got past the stage of being validated through my social media. It's like, I am who I am. You don't get everything right. You give it your best shot. I'm still, you know, still learning, still doing. But younger people very much see it as a slight on themselves if they haven't kept up totally with what's going on in the latest. And it's being left behind. The fear of being left out is very valid, is really very valid. Of not doing the same thing that you, not doing the things that you should be doing, or would like to be doing. Fear of missing out. FOMO is there.

Alastair GreenerPeer, peer pressure has always been there, but it manifests itself in such a different way. and such, you know, a more stressful way. You know, we've come a long way from the keeping up with the Joneses of the seventies, just having the right car on the driveway. You know, this is a lot more intense just to really wrap up here. I'd love to get your take, especially with your work and stress helping people as a, as a, um, as someone who's an expert in this space. What. What advice would you give people to help reduce stress to then increase and improve communication between generations?

Carole SpiersOkay, I think this is key, absolutely key, and the work that you're doing, Alastair, is really a very important part in looking at the generations. I think key, first of all, we have to be talking, making sure we make the time to speak. Uh, communications now don't just happen because we're caught, we're caught up with our phones. So absolutely make the time to speak. Do our very, very best to bridge the divide between the younger generation and the older generation. Let both of them recognize that you can do this reverse mentoring all the time. I can help you, you can help me. Why not get older people, younger people living with older people, uh, free. I heard that that's been done and I can't remember which country it is. We're really just to help people so therefore you're really trying to ensure that the younger and the older people come together to show appreciation, to show appreciation for who you are and what it is that you're doing. But key to everything is spending time together, away from the phone, away from the computer, making that time and making sure that you communicate. If there is a technology gap, which there may well be, so why not let the younger person help the older person? Hopefully with patience, because we may not be as fast as they are. That's the challenge I have with my grandchildren, is be like, oh for goodness sake, do it quickly. I think, okay, I'm doing my best. I'm doing my best. And you know, the trouble is, and they take it away from you and say, I can do this. I said, I want to learn. So really, in answer to your question, the one word is communicate, communicate, to be aware of the challenges that there are for individual age groups, for individual generations, communicate with them, making time for each other. Some of the things that I'm saying are quite straightforward. It's the 101 to communications, but we sometimes forget that. No, we start listening to somebody with a phone in our hands. We start listening to somebody while you're sitting on the computer. I mean, my doctor does that. I mean, then just you go into the doctor surgeons and be like, yes, how can I help you? And they look at the computer. Hello. My eye to eye contact is over here, . Um, so the open communications, let's get the reverse mentoring going, let's get the youngsters here listening to the older generation, the older generation to the younger generation. It's just we're all there together. Yes. Are there different challenges that we all have? Yes, there are. Um, but actually let us all take a responsibility for the generations that we are and make sure that we can actually work alongside each other and enrich each other. Because I've got loads of stories to tell you, which the youngster may not have, which is fine because you'll get your own stories in due course. So therefore, what is it that you can say, any of you can say, to help each other?

Alastair GreenerCarol, that was brilliant. How beautifully summed up. I don't think I can top that. Um, it's been great chatting, as always, with these things. Time goes really, really quickly, and we suddenly realise we're out of time. If people would like to get a hold of you, which I'm sure they will do, because you are the expert when it comes to stress. When anybody talks to me about it, and who should I speak to, Carol Spears is the person. How can people get a hold of you?

Carole SpiersOkay, probably my website's the easiest, which is either carolspearsgroup. co. uk or carolspears. co. uk. One's my corporate site and one is my speaker site, and it's carol, C A R O L E.

Alastair GreenerDon't forget the E. Carol, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much. And we will put all of your details in the show notes as well so people can see them and to everybody watching Thank you very much indeed again for watching for listening Stay in touch with us with all of the other podcasts that we've got going And also have a look at our website generationallyspeaking. co. uk. Thanks everyone and see you next time The Alastair Greener generationally speaking podcast was presented by me It was recorded at Granary Studios and produced by James Jones. Please follow us and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. To find out more, visit generationallyspeaking. co. uk