Writing in the Age of AI: Why Human Storytelling Matters More Than Ever

Automatically transcribed, so there may be the odd slip.

Alastair GreenerHello, and welcome to the "Alastair Greene: Generationally Speaking" podcast, where we look at bridging the generation gap by debunking myths, tackling stereotypes, and sharing practical tips on how we can build stronger intergenerational connections. My guest today is a millennial writer, marketing consultant, and founder of Seaforth Creative Group, a consultancy that helps events and media companies get more strategic business impact from their existing content, data, and communities. He's also currently writing, ghostwriting a nonfiction book for a business leadership expert. He regularly writes fiction of his own, and last year wrote and directed his first short play at a community theater in London. He's now building a new community for fiction writers set to launch this year. Today, we're gonna be talking about generational differences in marketing, the marketing trends being driven by younger generations, and then writing creativi- writing creativity and building communities across generations. So it's really, really exciting to introduce my guest today, Robbie Westercutt. Hello, Robbie.

Robbie WestacottGood afternoon. How you doing?

Alastair Greenergreat. Lovely to see you, and, uh, it-- I think it's fair to say it's taken us a while to get to this podcast, but I know it's gonna be worth it because you're bringing a, a, a very different approach to, um, the other guests that I've been chatting to because you're t- gonna be talking about marketing and book writing, which is an area we haven't even got anywhere near, uh, with all of the 40-odd episodes we've had so far. So, um, you're very welcome. Now, I'd like to start off, if I may. You're a millennial, and, you know, your life has been framed by the way that you were brought up, as my listeners are consistently hearing from me. Tell me a little bit about your upbringing, your background, and who is Robbie, and how did Robbie become the person he is today, and what were those influences around you?

Robbie WestacottThanks for having me. Really nice to be here. Um, so yeah, I was born in nineteen ninety, so very much a millennial. Um, I grew up in Wimbledon, um, in Southwest London, so a lot of people will probably be familiar with that from, uh, the tennis. And went to Wimbledon College, which was a, a state school and a non-private school, um, but a great school to go to. Um, and I did, uh, English literature and English language. Both were always my strongest subjects in school, and I did both of those at A-level, which is quite unusual. They usually encourage you to only do one or the other, I think because that probably limits your career prospects. Um, but, but you know, that was really kind of, um, the only subject I was interested in at school was English and, and writing and storytelling. So, um, that's kind of where I fell in love with language and communication and, and all those kind of things. Um, so I think that had a real, you know, a big influence on my life and, and has kind of led me down the career path that I've taken and has also kind of led me to, to where I am today as a both a fiction writer and a writer for, uh, businesses. Um, I think another big influence on me in terms of, you know, um, growing up and, and, and being in that kind of generation is, um, sport. So my school was very big on sport, and I played a lot of rugby when I was younger and, and all through my twenties. And I think that kind of probably also shaped me in a way because it, you know, requires a lot of good communication, uh, to play a team sport like rugby. And, um, yeah, I think that's something that's also been interesting in my adult life is, is playing for, um, uh, an adult rugby team where you're seeing younger generations come through, leaving sixth form, joining the team, having a very different kind of style and approach to playing a team sport like that. And there's definitely some noticeable differences with communication there, um, in that sort of scenario. So yeah, really interesting, um, kind of, uh, perspective, I suppose, on, on that.

Alastair GreenerAnd we'll, we'll certainly look at that a little bit later on when we look at different ways that each generation communicates as, as we go through the, uh, through the conversation. Uh, one thing that struck me is, um, being a rugby player and, you know, the whole thing of competition. Millennials, uh, were often... You know, it was suggested that they're the great collaborators because competition wasn't seen as the thing in the, in, in that time. You know, for example, people, you know, in the '90s, late '80s, early '90s, got medals for showing up. It was all about the team and less about winning. But of course, rugby is definitely doesn't fit into that mold, does it? So how, how do you balance that collaborative approach, which you clearly have in the work that you do today, but in a hugely competitive environment of rugby?

Robbie WestacottYeah, it's a really good question. I mean, I, I don't know if I necessarily Would resonate with that. I think rugby is a, is a real g- a game of real team values and a real team sport. Um, but you're right in terms of, you know, it is fiercely competitive. Um, and I think it, it, it's because it's a physical contact sport and then there's a lot of, um, intensity involved. I think it drives people within the team to be quite, you know, um, very direct with each other, very sort of hard on each other if things aren't going well. And, and you know, you have to reach a, a certain emotional level in order to perform at that kind of physical intensity level. So, um, yeah, it's, it's an interesting one. Um, but I also think it's, it's such a key, um-- And we'll get into this kind of topic more as we go through, you know, uh, some of the other questions, but it's so important to communicate clearly, uh, and, and communicate well in, in team sports like that. So, um, I think that's an important part of it as well is, is, you know, recognizing the ways in which people like to be communicated with or the types of communication styles, different age groups, different generations, different backgrounds respond well to. Um, I think that's an also important skill to have that's, that's helped me at least.

Alastair GreenerAnd when it comes to, you know, your choice in going into English, you know, being a wordsmith as it were at, at a younger age, were you a bit of an outlier with that or were there many other people in, in your cohort, um, who were interested? Because to me the initial thought is someone who's a wordsmith, someone very creative, uh, someone who's looking at that sort of, you know, the psychology if you like, which is involved in marketing and so on. And that and rugby, yes there are similarities, but I can't imagine there are that many rugby players who pursued the same career choice as you.

Robbie WestacottYeah, that's a very good observation. You're, you're right. It is quite a strange, um, mix, I suppose, um, that creative side and then the sporty side. Um, I mean, I, I must admit though, I think a big part of the reason I played rugby, you know, and loved it so much is more the sort of the social aspect. I didn't play to a, an amazingly high level, but it was more about, you know, building those bonds with people, having, you know, a great, a great fun, um, game like out on the pitch and then, and then, you know, those kind of relationships and experiences afterwards in terms of socializing and so on. Um, it's a great sport for that as well. Um, but yeah, you're right in terms of, you know, the, the creative, um, the creative interests and the c- the career I've pursued is quite unusual, like, uh, particularly in my sort of, um, group of friends and things like that. I, I, I don't know many people, um, in, in r- in real life, shall we say, that, that do what I do. So yeah, it's, it's a strange one perhaps.

Alastair GreenerAnd you, you're going to university, if I'm right, if I've got my calculations right, you were one of the first cohort who had to pay tuition fees. Um, and that, that must have been, you know, being on that cusp of that era must have been quite an interesting time, you know, going through those studies and facing, you know, a different way of going through university than, um, generation-- previous generations before you.

Robbie WestacottUm, yeah, I must admit, I, I, I'm not-- I don't really recall a huge amount of that in terms of an influence on my experience there. Um, I think we were just before the introduction of the ridiculously high tuition fees. So my age group was still, I think it was £3,000, something like that, a year, or, uh, does that sound about right? I'm not sure. But, um, it's been a while,

Alastair GreenerNo, I've, I've-- No, you're right. And, and there's still a cultural change though in terms of when you went to university because, of course, the generation before you were going through, and they were actually getting grants. It was all paid for and, you know, it was a different kind of framework. And also your generation, the amount of people who were going to university really stepped up. You know, the, you know, the percentages from the '80s to the noughties, you know, effectively we went from 15% going to university to ultimately nowadays you've got up to 50% going to university. So a very different, you know, sort of university backdrop. But let's move on to the marketing side. What got you into, into marketing? Was that a natural progression from studying English?

Robbie WestacottI, I wanted to be a writer, um, first and foremost. When I left university, that's what I knew I wanted to do. Um, I was writing fiction, kind of, you know, bits and pieces whilst at university and when I left. I didn't know what that would look like career-wise. I mean, my obvious, um, ambition was to, you know, become a novelist and, and write books and things like that, which is, you know, still part of the, um, the process I'm in at the moment. But I-- my thought process was leave university and find a job that will pay me well to write, basically. And, uh, and that very naturally led me into marketing. You know, there's lots of different ways you could go in terms of a profession. There's journalism, there's copywriting, advertising, marketing, et cetera. Um, but yeah, I-- it was my love of writing and, and my, uh, desire to do that, um, as a way to earn a living that led me into marketing. Um, yeah

Alastair GreenerAnd it's really interesting that you're probably one of few people of your generation that have actually been completely driven by one career choice, and you've stuck with it throughout that time. You know, because it's, it-- you know, everything you've done is connected with writing, connected with that creativity. It's just manifested itself in different ways. When you look around your friends who are of a similar age to you, I'm sure, uh, quite a few of them are on career two, three, four or even five by now.

Robbie WestacottUm, that's a really interesting question because actually, I don't know if it's maybe just my group of friends and I, but it's probably the inverse of that. Uh, uh, most of my best friends have been doing the same thing for, yeah, most of, most, most of their lives, I think. Which is-- I don't know if that's unusual. Um,

Alastair GreenerWell, it does-- I tell you what it does do, it, it helps me with my myth-busting, which is what I love to do on this podcast. I love to show the fact that people don't necessarily just follow the trend of what people expect of a certain generation. And I think one of the th- my aims and, and missions is to make people think beyond the stereotype. And, uh, you're making us do that, so thank you very much indeed for th- for, for, for that. Um, so looking at people coming into marketing now, you know, you're obviously a millennial, you're now seeing Gen Z coming into that. How has the environment changed for people coming into marketing today versus when you were in, in-- first coming into marketing?

Robbie WestacottWell, I think really interestingly, just on that specific question, for people coming into marketing today, I think we're at a really interesting kind of turning point in a way, because the generations who are entering the workplace for the first time right now are digital natives, and they are, they are the ones who have grown up with the highly advanced technology we are, you know, getting used to today in terms of the older generations getting used to it, um, and kind of dealing with that, that, um, that new sort of technology, new way of working. So those younger people who have innate digital skills and, and are really comfortable with all the technology that's, that's essentially driving so much of marketing and also, you know, business on a wider scale, um, at the moment. You know, in a strange way if you think about it, they almost have more power than the people who are interviewing them for jobs or looking to hire them because they are actually so far advanced, um, purely based on the way they've grown up with the technology that's, that's now in use. And, and additionally, you know, um, not just the technology itself, but the kind of the digital world that, that they occupy in terms of, you know, um, there's young kids- With, um, who, you know, 12, 13 years old with YouTube channels that have millions and millions of subscribers. And in the current marketing landscape, you know, that kind of audience, um, size and loyalty and kind of personal brand, um, recognition and equity is so important because, you know, you're, you're trying to capture people's attention and retain it as a marketing person. Um, and, and you've got this kind of fearless younger generation who, you know, have no, uh, reservations with, you know, going on camera and, and, and recording like video content, um, for the, you know, millions of people online. So there's a real like interesting shift in, um, the traditional kind of dynamic of, you know, we're a business, we have this brand. It's, it's really, um, you know, uh, desirable for you to come and work for us and, and, and us be the ones in control. But, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if we see, you know, an, a, an increasing shift of that power dynamic where it's like, well, young people are the ones really kind of, um, excelling at all the kind of more innovative marketing skills and practices and so on. Um, and since so much of, of marketing a- and business at the moment is done online, I think that's a really interesting trend, um, for those younger people. It's like a real advantage.

Alastair GreenerAnd what about AI? Because they're, they're entering a world-- You know, there's, there's been a lot of talk about the creative process and AI and, and obviously it's affecting book writing, which we'll come onto in a moment. But even marketing with copywriting, with journalism, with all of those things, and I have to hold my hands up here, you know, I use AI to write content for me, which in a sense is, is doing, uh, uh, d- doing people out of work and stuff. So where do you see that balance lying? Because on one hand, you could be a little bit of a, uh, an ostrich with your head buried in the sand saying, "No, no, no, we'll carry on doing it the way we've always done it." But then you've got people coming in who are going to be adopting this new technology and, and, and running with it and, you know, that's gonna create a, a whole new world in, in the way that we approach marketing and writing. Where, where do you stand with that discussion?

Robbie WestacottSo from my perspective, it obviously, you know, using digital tools to become more efficient or automate, you know, m- manual ti- uh, time-consuming processes is, you know, beneficial. And it's important to not be, you know, too resistant to technology, um- But I do think that, you know, in terms of people's cognitive development and their ability to, to, to, you know, learn skills and, and do things like writing, if you're outsourcing that task to AI, then you're not doing that task yourself. You're not either learning how to do it or you're not getting better at it yourself. Um, so then it's kind of when it comes to writing, the argument is like, well, you know, do human beings still need to write to be able to write well and communicate well? Because writing is, is largely communication. Of course, they do. And writing improves your communication skills and improves your ability to think, your ability to work through problems, and so on. And that process is critical to, you know, your, your, your development of opinions and, and perspectives and so on. So I think outsourcing writing to, to AI is, is in many ways a bit of a mistake. Like, yes, it can give you the output much, much faster, and for a lot of people it can give you a, maybe a s- a better output depending on your ability to write. But I, I don't think the outcome is always the 100% of the point with something like writing. I think you're writing to like, to go through the process of thinking through it, to learn, you know, the thing you're writing about better, to develop your own viewpoint on it, um, to, to develop your own voice and your own way of thinking. Um, so I do worry a little bit that people are growing up with AI a- and using that to do all sorts of important, you know, really critical human skills for them w- before they learn to do them themselves properly. You know, are g- are gonna have, you know, some, some potential risks when it comes to their development, I suppose. However, having said that, I do understand that there are great benefits to someone, say, for example, if someone's really dyslexic and they just generally struggle to write because, you know, they, they were born that way, then using AI to help them communicate their valuable knowledge more clearly is obviously a good thing. So I think it's about, you know, a balance between using AI as a tool to help you, um, do things, you know, uh, more effectively or more efficiently versus actually developing your own critical skills as a human being that you do still need.

Alastair GreenerAnd I think many people would agree with you in the principle of that. Learning those skills is really important, and it'll be interesting to see how marketing courses at university, how they change in the world of AI. And, you know, the, the, the challenge I guess you have as a marketer, and we'll come onto book writing in a while, but as a marketer, you have a challenge that if you're an organization and you're looking at hiring or using AI, you're not necessarily looking at that purest view of has this been written with someone's skills? You're just thinking about your output. You're thinking about, you know, what's reaching your clients and your customers and your audience, and is that good enough? And I know that's, that's, you know, almost swearing in, in front of someone who's a creative writer, but I'm just being a bit of a pragmatist thinking, " If I'm an organization, I'm looking at my bottom line and costs and so on," that's a very difficult, you know, uh, decision to make where you're doing the right thing or you're doing the express thing, which is gonna save you a lot of time and money and resources. And

Robbie WestacottTrue, but then I'd...

Alastair Greenerpoint.

Robbie WestacottYeah. No, it is. And I, and I see your perspective completely. I think we're then kind of veering into questions like quality over quantity and, you know, making the assumption that everything AI produces is, is actually good enough to publish, which in many cases it isn't. Um, you know, there's a very, uh, cliched term now, which is, you know, like crap in, crap out when it comes to language models. Um, so I think the other thing that I am seeing, and this is kind of related to what we-we're talking about i-in terms of, you know, um, trends and so on, is, um, people, uh, of all generations at the moment, I think are craving, you know, real sort of human authenticity, like real... Because there's so much AI-generated content on the internet now, and a lot of it is very low quality and a lot of it is very, you know, robotic and, and, and, and sort of, um, sterile or very kind of, you know, clearly AI written. I think we're gonna see a very big kind of, um, movement for, you know, hu- more human, um, things. Because, you know, if something's a commodity, which AI content is now, then, you know, the alternative, the, the, the actual, um, the, the work that's taken a lot of time and effort and care to produce becomes much, much higher value as well. So, um, yeah. I know it's an interesting debate for sure.

Alastair GreenerAnd actually what I think is particularly interesting is the element where I would agree with you is there's an element of AI being a bit of a gimmick using avatars and, you know, things like the ABBA in concert, which is all, you know, done with avatars and things. Yes, it's all very nice, but I think fundamentally I would agree with you that we all crave that real connection with another human being because we're hardwired to do that. So in that respect, I'm a complete optimist and, uh, would agree with you. Um, so let's go on to the writing side of it now, um, because clearly when you look at the different generations, you, you look at the older generations, baby boomers, you know, probably a little bit more analog in their approach if you go along with the stereotype. And then you sort of get younger and younger and younger, and they've become more digital. That's not necessarily the case, um, but you will have people within that. How are people today approaching writing? You know, you're working with authors, and you're working with younger authors. How are you guiding them in a way that they learn the real craft of writing rather than just relying on AI?

Robbie WestacottYeah. So, I mean, just for a bit of context for the benefit of the audience, um, as well as writing my own fiction and, and doing a lot of writing, um, I actually am now running a, an online community for fiction writers, and it's designed to help, um, you know, encourage and support and connect writers and also provide them with the, uh, the accountability and the consistency and, and the motivation to achieve their writing goals faster. Um, so we meet, you know, online four times a week for online group writing sessions, and in that group, in that community, we have about 40 authors from all over the world and a real, real range of ages and generational kind of backgrounds. Like we have... I think our youngest member is 18, uh, or 19, and she's at university, and she just published her first novel, which is fantastic. And then we have people, you know, who have children who are older than that, that young, that young girl. So, like, it's a really interesting, um, sort of group dynamic and, and, and what's, what's amazing is that everyone is, um, you know, regardless of age or background or whatever it might be, everyone's bonding over a shared love of writing. And I think from my perspective, it's that love of writing that should drive you to write. You should... You know, okay, it's great to have goals and it's great to have, um, you know, pride in your work, but if you don't really love the process of writing, sitting down every day at the desk, even when it feels difficult and, you know, doing the work and going through that process of, you know, trial and error and, and honing your craft and, and, you know, getting the bad ideas down so that you can make them good in the editing process later. If you don't really enjoy that, like, you probably shouldn't be writing because, you know, you're not gonna get rich as an author these days unfort- unless you're very, very lucky and, and a very sort of, um, rare kind of 1% or 2% of, of people who get the, you know, the mega book deal or whatever it might be. And, and unfortunately, you know, it's a, it's a very difficult, at times very lonely, um, and, and very kind of, um- frustrating process to try and write a novel or, or be a writer, you know, in, in, in these days online with, um, all the kind of noise that's going on, um, and all the plagiarism that's going on and, you know, things like that. So I would say that, you know, there are people who love to write and then there are people who want to be writers, right? And I'm not saying that either is right or wrong, but I do think that, you know, if you're writing to try and make loads of money or to try and get famous or because you just wanna be seen as a writer, it's probably gonna be really, really unenjoyable. A- and if you just outsource it to AI, then you're not, you're not writing anyway. So

Alastair GreenerIt's like

Robbie Westacottlove of the craft.

Alastair Greenerprofessions, isn't it? Yeah, it's, it's the love of the craft, whatever you do. And, and the reality is that the majority of people who are successful at whatever career path they take, it's the ones who have the true passion for it that tend to do well. What is the difference between the-- when we look at the generations, is there a difference in the way that they approach their writing, say from someone who's a baby boomer through to somebody like your 18-year-old student? Are they, are they approaching it differently because of the way that they were brought up, their environment, their generation? Um, or, or is the craft a pretty consistent thing?

Robbie WestacottNo, I'd s- I, I, I'd say my observation, and this is, you know, this is just me, this might not be widely applicable, but based on my experience in my master's degree in creative writing and also with this writing community I have gr- uh, built now. I think the, the older generations than me seem to have gone through a process of they've lived their life, they've had a career, they've, you know, they've had children, they've, they've done a, a, a, um, a specific job for most of their adult life and it's kind of later on a lot of people seem to be coming to writing and, and thi- and realizing they have a story to tell or, you know, having an experience or, or a series of experiences in their lives that they now want to reflect on and process through the pro- you know, writing a, a book or, or whatever it might be, a memoir or a novel or, or maybe they've just had a really successful career and they've done well enough to be able to retire and then write books, um, you know, after, after they've finished work. Whereas there's now in this sort of younger generation, it seems like a lot of these kids, like I sort of touched on earlier, are much more bold and, and sort of just ready to, um, to just write something or create something or put themselves out there on social media as a poet or whatever it might be and just, you know, try these things at the same time as, as trying to get a, a job and, and build a career and, and, and having almost like that portfolio career mindset of, well, you know, I'm, uh, I'm working in PR and I've just left university, but I've also got a YouTube channel when I talk about- you know, uh, crocheting and I've also written a book somehow. Like, you know, it's like the, the younger generation certainly feels like more empowered to just do what they want to do rather than I think, you know, in previous generations it was more of a rigid like career path where it's expected for you to go in a more traditional route, if that makes sense.

Alastair GreenerYeah, and it's important for all of us who are older to understand that it's a different environment in which youngsters are being brought up in today. And of course, there's the big thing of peer pressure as well, and that's where writing and social media absolutely collide because, you know, you're, you're competing with everybody else out there for space, for audience and everything else. And, and it's probably harder than ever in, in, in that respect. And, you know, I'd like to talk, you know, a little bit about, you know, tips that you have. You know, you've seen people of all ages, um, approach writing in the different styles which you've mentioned, which I think is a, a really obs-- strong observation and, and actually links very closely to some of the work that I've done in terms of what I'm seeing different generations approach whatever career path they choose. What tips do you have for somebody who is thinking of getting into writing today? Um, and does that advice change according to your generation?

Robbie WestacottSo are we talking about writing fiction or, or writing as a career?

Alastair GreenerEither. Either. And if the advice is different, fine too.

Robbie Westacottyeah. Okay. So I think in terms of... I think when-- So yeah, I think the answer is different actually, because if you're writing in a, in a, uh, in a business environment, for example, like I've done with marketing, I would say that the emphasis, you know, is always on the audience. Like e-e-effective marketing is you have to be highly, highly audience-centric, um, and empathetic and, and prioritize the people you're trying to communicate with. Because ultimately marketing is communicating a message to a specific group of people and trying to convince those people to take an action, right? So, um, in the business world, in terms of writing, I think go into it with, you know, audience centricity as a, as a real priority. Um, and that kind of comes, comes back to the point about, you know, trends with, with, um, you know, different generations. Like communicate, understanding different, different types of people, different groups of people have different preferences for communication, um, different ways of thinking, um, different, different, um, you know, habits and behaviors and perspectives that, that need to be tailored to, uh, or catered to when you are trying to write for them in a, in a sort of, you know, business context, uh, especially with marketing. Um, but then in-- if you're writing fiction, I think it's almost the opposite of that. It's, it's about writing the story that you wanna write and, and being true to yourself and your, your experiences, your personal pers-perspective. Yes, you still need a lot of empathy and a good understanding of psychology as an author because you are creating fictional characters that need to feel like real living people, and that requires you to put yourself in the, the perspectives of lots of different people who, you know, who are nothing like you in real life. Um, but ultimately, if you are writing a novel or some sort of fictional story, um, I think it's about... You know, like I said earlier, the process is difficult. There's no guarantee of success and, y-you know, it's not a quick, easy win to write a good book. So you have to enjoy it, and you have to write the story that you really wanna tell and that's unique to you. Um, I think anyway.

Alastair GreenerProgressively, the generations are becoming more the gig economy. Um, you know, if-- And I'm, I'm always saying that what the young do today, we'll all be doing tomorrow sort of thing. And, you know, it, it's-- they lead the way. They always have done. That's the way the youth work, and that's why we get change, and that's why we move ahead and we get progress because it's usually driven by the young. But do you think there's, um, a... Are you able to be as successful as a writer when you're treating it as a bit of a part-time thing amongst multiple other jobs and careers? Does it maybe make you a better writer because you've got access to different experiences? Or do you think it's something you really need to focus on and be a little bit more driven?

Robbie Westacottthink that will differ based on the, the type of person. However, I think there is no hiding, you know, in terms of writing craft. Like, y-you have to be able to write well, um, regardless of, of whether you're doing it full-time or if it's, you know, like a, a part-time passion project. But... And that only comes from practice, repetition, you know, um, honing your skills, doing it over and over and over again. And, and that's why I go back to the point about, you know, you have to really enjoy it because you can't do something like that, you know, every day without fail again and again and again for years unless you do really enjoy it. Otherwise, you know, you're wasting your time. Um, so I think it's important to, to really focus on your craft. However, I, I do think, yeah, I think it... You know, writing is a skill that's applicable in every line of work and in every walk of life, right? That's why I'm so concerned about, you know, people outsourcing it to AI because if you can't do it well yourself, you're gonna struggle in a lot of different places. Um, a-and, and again, it's kind of that point about communication. A lot of writing is just communicating an idea or a point or a, an opinion in, in written form and doing it clearly and doing it effectively with good structure and good- vocabulary and, and good, um, you know, emotional resonance for the target audience. So yeah, I think, you know, it, it, it really depends on what you're trying to achieve, like what your goal is. If you do wanna become, you know, uh, uh, make a good living from writing, you probably do need to give it most of your attention. Um, but equally, that's not to say you can't, um, you know, d- succeed with various different projects, um, a- as a, you know, something you're doing in your spare time, whether that's before work or after work or, you know, whenever, so.

Alastair GreenerYeah, it's, it, it, it is absolutely horses for courses, and of course we're seeing generationally people evolve and, you know, as I said before, people, you know, uh, live in a very different world to the one it was 50 years ago, but are managing and creating it in, in their own way. Robbie, it's been fantastic talking to you. We're gonna put all your links and everything else in the, in the show notes because I'm sure a lot of people will be interested in finding, you know, that support network for, for authors, um, so they don't feel they're quite so much by themselves. And I'm sure the kind of conversations that we've been having are, are very common in, in the groups when it comes to approaching writing. Uh, So thank you very much indeed for joining us. I'll be back again in two weeks' time, where we'll be talking about another subject and how we can bridge that generation gap. Bye for now. The Alastair Greener Generationally Speaking Podcast was presented by me, Alastair Greener. It was recorded at Granary Studios and produced by James Jones. Please follow us and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. To find out more, visit generationallyspeaking.co.uk.