Millennials, Sport, and the Sandwich Generation

Automatically transcribed, so there may be the odd slip.

Alastair GreenerHello and welcome to the Alastair Greener Generationally Speaking podcast, where we look at bridging the generation gap by debunking myths, tackling stereotypes, and share practical tips on how we can build stronger intergenerational connections. Now my guest today is an international archer and a civic engagement manager at Bath Spa University with a background spanning competitive sport community ca. Collaboration, easy for me to say and cross generational engagement. Now, today we are gonna be talking about sport across generations and how it's involved. We're also gonna be talking about being at university in 2026 and being a community connector across generations, and what exactly does that mean? So it's great today to talk to Lizzie Reese. Hi Liz.

Lizzy ReesHello. Hi Alastair. Thank you for having me.

Alastair GreenerWell, no, thank you for coming on on the show. And do you know what's really lovely is I think you're the first person I've really spoken to at, at any length about sport and that's such an important area and it's, we've seen a massive evolution with that, um, over the years. Especially, and I know when we were talking in our pre-call about, you know, the involvement of national lottery and the impact that that had. Um, but I wanna start off by talking a little bit about you and your background. I always like to start off each, uh, podcast with that. And you in particular have. Quite an interesting story in terms of growing up because you are one of five millennials in your household. My goodness me. What was that like? How did you get on and, and what was life like generally growing up?

Lizzy ReesUh, I, I think people sort of asked what on earth were my parents thinking? Um, but they did get twins at the end. So what was four? Probably ended up, uh, ended up being five. Um, it was really lovely. Generally speaking, we, we all got on very. Very well, and because a lot of our big life events happened very close to each other, sort of my brother drove land to drive, then my next sister would, then my next sister would the year after, et cetera. Um, it was actually really lovely. We just sort of evolved together and had key milestones at very similar times.

Alastair GreenerAnd would you say that the, the era that you were all growing up in, how would you summarize that in terms of maybe your parents' parenting style? Because I mean, that style has to adapt a little bit when you've got five youngsters in, in the household. Um, you know, you are seen as. As millennials as being very much the collaborative generation, uh, very team spirited and so on. Did did that work out like that in your family?

Lizzy ReesYeah, absolutely. I, I laughed reading your book because it was very much organ organized, quite an organized childhood. You know, Mondays we had hockey, Tuesdays we had tennis. It was, it was quite structured upbringing and I, I would. I'd say that seems very traditional of millennial children. Um, but we also made our own fun as well. You know, mom and I could literally be like, go outside and go and do some stuff together. And we did. We collaborated really well. We, we had a laugh, you know, there's lots of scraps as well included as children do, but it was, you know, a really. I just remember being a really joyous childhood and I feel like I've now got, uh, four best friends who are my siblings, and we're all still incredibly close, which is lovely.

Alastair GreenerWow. I mean, that is a great story to hear. Is there anything that you think that your parents did in bringing you up that created this, this wonderful upbringing that you had? You know, in other words, was it by accident or do you think they engineered it?

Lizzy ReesI think it was completely by accident. You know, they were incredibly busy working parents. Um, I think they were very diplomatic. We, if we ever had, um, disagreements, they'd run something called the family conference. So we, we'd all have to eat dinner together every night. We didn't have. Television or screens or anything. We all spoke at dinner, we all talked about our day, and if we had disagreements that were big, we'd have a family conference and we'd all sort of scrap it out. But we'd, we'd have an opinion and then our parents would just sort of say, look, you need, you need to come to a conclusion on this. You're all siblings, you all love each other. Kind of get on with it. So it that, that was nice. Uh, diplomatic upbringing, I think.

Alastair GreenerThat's, I have to say, that's extraordinary and, and very well, um, orchestrated and, and, and all terribly grown up and, um, you know, really, really balanced and clearly that that methodology worked. Um, with, with what you've done, and one of the things you talked about being very much an organized family. You had your different activities and you got into archery, didn't you?

Lizzy ReesYeah, I did. Um, both my parents competed for Great Britain, but they started very late in life. So, um, essentially when they started having children, they wanted to do something other than just work and look after kids. So they took up archery, um, and ended up being very good at it. So from a really young age, I was four when I first. Shot. Um, I then was competing on the British Circuit from eight years old, which is, is really young. Um, and I was competing internationally from 14 years old. So yeah, archery wa was a feature in my life, but I also, you know, took part in lots of other activities and I'm very grateful for the opportunity to, to have been able to, you know, explore music and other sports and things. Um. I, I will say I largely feel like it's 'cause my parents were so busy working, they kind of needed to just shovel us into doing stuff. So we, we ended up doing lots. I.

Alastair GreenerUh, do you think that's changed you in the way that you know, you will be with, with, with, with, with your family in terms of, you know, there's, there's some, uh, anecdotal data coming out that millennials, as they have children, that actually they don't want to have so much helicopter parenting. They want to do things a little bit differently. And of course, every generation always go. Go slightly reactive in terms of the way that they were brought up. So what do you think you would change?

Lizzy ReesI, I think because of my upbringing, particularly over my university years, I was incredibly structured and I enjoyed structure. And I think sort of across my late twenties and thirties, I've realized I actually really like less structure and being a bit more free-spirited. So I think, I think I'd introduce that. Should I have a family, I would, I'd, I'd ensure that. We were a bit more free spirited and could just choose on the day what you fancy doing. Um, I don't resent the structure, but I, I would definitely be pushing against it a bit with my own family.

Alastair GreenerAnd again, I guess it depends on the size of family as well, because one of the things we're seeing as well is, is smaller family units these days generally.

Lizzy ReesYeah, and it's interesting reflecting on my, my brother who's the oldest sibling, he, he has been quite traditional, I'd say a traditional millennial in that he's, you know, he has got a family now and he, he'd bought a house earlier. Um, he'd gone to university, but he did come out of uni sort of. Directly 2008 financial crash. So he had some significant milestones. Um, but I've really not gone down the youngest millennial in the family. I call myself a cusper. I think I'm a bit of a Gen Z as well. Um, you know, I, I don't own a house. I don't particularly want to own a house at the moment. I don't have plans for a family anytime soon. I'm, those milestones are definitely being pushed back for me. Um, yeah.

Alastair GreenerAnd, and that actually is, is something we see that's very common amongst millennials. The delayed milestones, and there's a multitude of. Of reasons for that, you know, and I've spoken to a couple of millennials on this podcast, you know, to try and get to the bottom of, you know, why are those delayed milestones? Um, because what we read in the press isn't necessarily what, what's actually happening. Let, let's come to, you know, your work as well, um, because you are working with different generations. And one of the things that I've often seen in my research is. How it's millennials who have the biggest challenges with Gen Z. It's not necessarily older generations, it's the right next door generation. So you are working in university. What are you seeing different to the way that you approach university and your generation approach university with the generation coming in now?

Lizzy ReesUm, I'd, I'd say Gen Z are exceptionally values driven and they, there's a lot of, um, you know, what can I get out of this? So, when I was at university, if, if the uni wanted us to engage, they basically offer some pizza and everyone would be there. 'cause you know, we all like free food. And I feel like now engaging Gen Z students is much harder because. They're a lot more boundaried in terms of, you know, actually I don't see that much value in the free pizza. And if I'm giving you my time, I want to know it's, you know, contributing to a positive outcome or helping my career or, um, I really celebrate that. I think that is a brilliant, um, feature of Gen Z. They are much more boundaried, which I think is great. Um, and, and they know what they want and they know what's. What's good for them and looking after themselves. So I, I don't see it as a negative at all. I think it's a very good difference that should be celebrated.

Alastair GreenerAnd what about your colleagues? Do they, do they share your views on that or do they get a little bit frustrated without naming, naming names? Of course.

Lizzy ReesUm, I mean, I, my office is in the communications and marketing team. They're all pretty young. I'm probably one of the oldest people in my department. Um, so they're, they're pretty open-minded. I think, you know, generally there are some stereotypical comments that float around occasionally about, you know, oh, gen Z or this and that. But generally speaking, you know, people at the university are incredibly open-minded and, and yes, celebrate the different generations that we have at, at the university.

Alastair GreenerIn fairness, when you are in the business you are in, one would hope that people would have that viewpoint, but isn't necessarily always. So you've obviously again seen that development, that change. What are the sort of current trends that you are seeing amongst the thinking of students? You talked about values, but is there anything else that. That is changing the way that universities operate today.

Lizzy ReesUm, I think have. Communicating with students has changed significantly. There's lots of much shorter, sharper communication. We can no longer send. I mean, barely any of them would respond to an email. Emails are not a thing that they're in tune with. It's all having to develop apps and notifications and really short, sharp communications. That feels very different from, um, you know, when I was at university in previous generations. And I think that comes from a. Digitally native generation, you know, they are used to having very quick feedback on things and we are having to adapt. I suppose the challenge is a lot of the staff at the university are older generations, and it's everyone being open-minded and accepting, you know, that is what the students want and we, we have to respond to that, or they're gonna be disengaged. So keep, keep moving with the times.

Alastair GreenerAre you finding that you are communicating on multiple platforms or is there a, a predominance towards one particular platform in terms of communication?

Lizzy ReesSo the work that I specifically do in civic engagement is more about how the university communicates with the outside world. So I am. Slightly unusual in that I really am communicating with a huge array of generations, um, in business, in communities, in charity, charitable organizations. That's a real challenge in the trying to pitch how to communicate with people. You know, some people want a newsletter where they hear every detail of what we've been up to. Other people want, you know, two sentences on an Instagram post. I feel I obviously gravitate. To what I'm used to in my generation, and I'm constantly having to keep an open mind. Older generations want stuff in person. They want physical assets. Younger people want apps, notifications. It's a bit of a minefield, and I think, you know, strategically we have to make a decision about who, who are we wanting to engage and how, how do we communicate with them more effectively?

Alastair GreenerYeah. And effectively what you are probably having to do is to be all things to all people. And in that respect, you are, you are using multiple generations, uh, multiple platforms simultaneously. I mean, I know. You know, and I'm sure you're the same, you wake up in the morning, you think in the old days you just turned on the laptop and opened up your emails. That was it. Now you're checking your WhatsApp, your texts, you're checking LinkedIn, you're checking other social media platforms, emails, and any other form of communication platforms. If you are, you know, in a workplace, you're looking at your Slack accountants and so on. So you know, it, it gets quite exhausting. Trying to make sure that you're up to date with, with, with, with all the communication that you are, that you're doing and, and then remembering, oh yes, that person prefers to do it on LinkedIn, or that prefer person prefers to do it on Slack.

Lizzy ReesYeah, absolutely. I, the, the core ethos of the project I run is, um, we are very focused around face-to-face engagement, so I'm quite lucky in that I can always default to. Um, offering people a coffee and just say, look, can we talk in person first? Um, but yeah, it is challenging and a a lot of my time is spent across a multitude of platforms and it is a bit draining. But, um, I'd probably say, you know, with the introduction of generative ai, that is probably something that will be helpful in future, um, u using technology to help you, um, streamline tasks that are sort of taking up a, uh. High percentage of your work time.

Alastair GreenerThere's a, a huge sort of stereotype when it comes to Gen Zs that they would hide behind screens. They don't want that personal interaction. The work that, the studies that I did in, in my book was that showed, that wasn't exactly the picture. What are you finding?

Lizzy ReesI think the initial engagement is challenging for Gen Z. They are used to communicating online and it is. in the first instance for them to approach people in a room, et cetera. But I, I find once you've found some common ground with them, they are really easy to talk to. They're incredibly enthusiastic, they're hardworking, they want to help, but it is, you know, having a good hook of a conversation, you know, what are you wanting to talk to them about? Um. I really celebrate them. I think they're great. Um, I think they're brilliant with technology as well, and organizations should absolutely be utilizing their skills.

Alastair GreenerAnd they're certainly making that kind of decision, well, should I do this? Should I not? Is it worth me doing it or not? And it's almost, you are almost suggesting that actually for initializing a initiating a conversation, do it through the digital methods. But then once you are continuing and nurturing that relationship, then they're more into doing that in person. Would that be a fair assessment?

Lizzy ReesYeah, absolutely. And I, I think one of the techniques I've been using at work is jump off the back of a already scheduled student event where students are definitely turning up rather than trying to host an event about something that sounds quite academic, that students might be a bit like, oh no, I don't fancy it. Go to an event that's cooler where there's lots of young people and go and talk to them in the room. But trying to get people, um, to standalone events has been. Been challenging. So it's, it's just about adapting and, and being creative about how we try and approach our students.

Alastair GreenerSo the message here basically is hijack someone else's event, but don't think pizza will do it because it's not enough.

Lizzy ReesYeah, yeah. Pretty much in a nutshell. Yeah.

Alastair GreenerOkay. No, that, this is really fascinating and I think it's really helpful for, for everybody, whether they are, you know, students themselves about to go to university or for that matter, parents, grandparents, and, and aunties, uncles and, and so on. So that, that was really, really interesting. I want to move on to a little bit about sport, because that's a, a, been a big, big part of your life and you've seen a massive evolution. Um, of sport over the years. Um, and actually at the time of recording this podcast, it was the Winter Olympics, um, taking place, uh, which again, I've noticed there's a lot of narrative about the funding, and there's an expectation of the return of funding on funding in terms of, let's see what the medal count is. Give us an overview of what it was like when you got into sport, and then how that evolved over time.

Lizzy ReesYeah, I think, um, I've, I've had the privilege of being a non-executive director of the Olympic governing body for archery. So I've seen from a sort of political standpoint as well, has sports has changed quite significantly, I'd say sort of. Early-ish, two thousands. So Athens to Beijing Olympics, particularly when lottery funding was introduced. It was very much a win at all costs, you know. We are investing money in you, we expect you to churn out medals. We're not really that bothered about how it happens and the, the ethical nature of coaching, et cetera. Um, and a lot of organizations have, you know, got into trouble over the years because of the methods that they were using. Now it's very much, you know, we need a return on investment, but there is a much. Greater focus on athlete wellbeing, um, you know, retention of staff and so, um, specialist support, et cetera. So that I think is hugely positive. You know, we need to win medals. Yes, but it has to be done in the right way. You, you, we, we can't go back to the early two thousands. It wasn't particularly ethical, I don't think.

Alastair GreenerAnd it the, when we look back at especially the 2012 games in London, which was seen as quite a pivotal, pivotal moment for sport in Britain, and there was a lot of talk about legacy at that point. How do you think that's actually transpired over the years? Because we're, we're now what, 14 years later?

Lizzy ReesThat's, I mean, statistically that's quite, there's quite a clear narrative in terms of, you know, we wanted to do London 2012 to increase participation in sports. That has actually not happened to the degree that one would've hoped. Um, but I do think it creates a great sense of pride and, um, yeah, pride in our nation. There are significant challenges still around getting people involved in sports, and I think what London has done is allow people to look at sports as more of a, you know, inclusive social thing to do rather than something to do to compete and win medals. And I, I think that's. Uh, critical in terms of, you know, the health of our nation. We need people to be active. We don't necessarily need them to be professional sports people, and I think London was probably the beginning of the shift in that narrative.

Alastair GreenerIt is I, I do see a lot more demand from people, from young families wanting to get their children involved in sport. And one of the things that has come up recently, people are saying, well, of course it gets them away from their screens. It gets them doing something. So there's that social interaction. Aspect to sport, which is incredibly important. Do you think that these sporting bodies recognize that the value of that, um, more so now than, than before?

Lizzy ReesYeah, I, I can only really speak, um, in depth around archery, and I think they do really recognize that there is always. Financial. Pulls in terms of, you know, some of the governing bodies funded for elite end of sport winning medals, going to the Olympic games. And then there's other funding that's towards the more sociable wellbeing element. So a governing body strategically is. Always having to balance, you know, how much are we pushing one narrative over the other and, and what's best for the development and future of our sport. So I think the trend is definitely moving towards more around being sociable around wellbeing, but there will always be that desire to, you know, high stakes winning medals at the Olympic games is what brings, uh, revenue in terms of commercial revenue. That's, that's where you get that from.

Alastair GreenerIt, it's difficult to ever move too far away from the commercial aspect of anything that we do. And, you know, universities have been very much the subject of the commercial aspect. You know, are they actually producing results, um, with, with, with students and, and so on. And actually coming back to that and combining those two disciplines together. What would you say the state of sport in universities is at the moment?

Lizzy ReesUm, I mean, I've, uh, vast Bar University is not a very sporty university, so, um, I couldn't comment necessarily from, from Vast Bar's perspective, but, um, I have very close ties with the University of Bath where I graduated, uh, decade or so ago. But they, they have a very, very strong focus on sports and on elite sports. Um. I really think it depends a lot on the university. Again, there are, there are two sides to the coin. You know, university that is more sporty wants to attract sports people. It's good PR for them. It's good potential income generation, but there's also a huge focus at universities on student wellbeing and sport is an excellent mechanism too. Ensure that students are happier and healthier. So there's always this sort of strange balance of, um, participation versus medals. And I, I think unis are doing pretty well. Pretty well at it. Yeah.

Alastair GreenerYeah, and that must be a real challenge for them because at the end of the day, there's no direct return if you are having sports, as you know, that's something that's vocational. It's something there as a facility for the students as opposed to being a focus because they're running courses on sports. So I'm thinking of universities like L Bro places, which obviously that's their focus, but to somehow get that. Balance where you are looking at the, um, the health and wellbeing of students, but it's not directly attributed to any form of revenue making.

Lizzy ReesYeah, and I, I mean, I will absolutely advocate for Bar Spa. We are a university that cares very deeply about our students and I, and it's the right thing to do. You know, we are not a machine to generate income. Um, we want students to have a brilliant experience. So, um, I'd like to think most universities, that is one of their core principles. Um. You know, they are not gonna generate income off of vocational sport, but it's the right thing to offer and you get happier, healthier students that are gonna positively promote your university in future. So there, there may not be direct wins, but there are definitely indirect perks from a sporting offer.

Alastair GreenerNow as a millennial, you are, you are fast approaching the stage of life, of being the sandwich generation. And uh, a while ago I did a whole um, LinkedIn post about the sandwich generation, where it's a generation where they have. Kids of their own, but they're also looking after parents potentially, and they're also caught in the middle. You are also now probably the biggest generation in the workplace because some Gen Xs are already starting to leave the workplace and at the other end you don't have the whole cohort of Gen Z there yet. So you are in that sort of caught in between in, in many respects. How does that feel as a millennial? Because of course you were the, you were the young bucks, you were the youngsters coming in on the block and all of a sudden your role in society and the workplace and family life ha ha, has changed. How do you see all of that?

Lizzy ReesUh, I think it's quite overwhelming, to be honest. I think. Um, I am probably avoiding bigger milestones because I don't really want to come to terms with the fact that I'm moving into that sandwich, uh, sort of sandwich generation. But, um, it's a lot. I think there's a lot of responsibility, um, on millennials or we feel a sense of responsibility. Um. I'm call me silly, but I'm sort of bearing my head a bit about it. I'm, you know, I don't want to commit to buying a house at the moment. I don't want to commit to having family. I'm quite happy with the idea of sort of going off for another year of traveling or, I dunno, call me crazy, but I just think, um. You know, all that responsibility's never gonna go away, but, um, you don't have to buy into it as early as everyone suggests that you need to. So, uh, happy, but a little bit overwhelmed is probably the nutshell.

Alastair GreenerAnd looking for eternal youth. Keep

Lizzy ReesYeah, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah.

Alastair GreenerAnd, and let's be honest, generations before you would've done that if society hadn't put so much pressure on them to conform and do things early. Um, and the other thing when it comes to communication. How do you find yourself adapting your style of communication, dealing with older people in the university and parents and older relatives and and so on, and then at the other end you are, you are obviously dealing with youngsters coming into the university, so how do you adjust the way that you communicate according to who you're talking to?

Lizzy ReesI think first of all, it's about being open-minded to the types of platforms and, um, communications channels that you need to use. I'll still just pick up the phone and speak to my parents, um, but I will, you know, send a much shorter snappier text or WhatsApps or whatever. If I'm talking to young, younger people, I think it's just. For me, it's identifying, you know, what, why are you contacting them and what do you need out of that equation? Um, and how do you get to that as quickly as possible? Um, is probably my approach, but just, just being open-minded and, and flexible I think is really important as well.

Alastair GreenerYou talked there a little bit about the challenges of these milestones approaching and maybe sort of kicking them into the long grass a little bit more so that that might be perceived as you seeing the biggest challenges of being a millennial. What do you think the best parts of being a millennial are?

Lizzy ReesOh, that's a really good question. Um. I think we had a, a real privilege of not having, uh, lots of digital stuff when we were younger and having it introduced later in life. I think that's been lovely because we are almost the last generation of having experienced both sides of technology. Um, that's probably the thing I enjoy the most. Uh. I dunno about anything else. Not off the top of my head. I, I love being a millennial. I think it's a really, I feel, um, I'm in a very sort of cool stage of life. Not huge responsibility, um, you know, more financially stable than I've ever been. Uh, and that's exciting. I'm very focused, uh, on experiences over owning things and, you know, physical property. Um. So, yeah, excited about the prospects of having more experiences and adventurous traveling Probably.

Alastair GreenerAnd, and it's what I, I really enjoy watching is seeing the way that society has changed because, you know, I was a generation, like many Gen Xs and boomers, it was all about work. It was about certain things and achieving certain milestones and, and, and so on, but actually experiences that your generation and the younger generation are now. Completely involved with, and you know, some would say, almost obsessed with that actually that's now sweeping across all generations. And maybe something that brings us all together because we now have these shared experiences, um, that, that we can have more. I wanna finish off by just getting an idea of. Being the sound, the new sandwich generation, being a millennial, what are your top tips that you would give people to try and bridge that gap? You are doing it automatically every day by nature of what you do. So what is, what are some of those things that you would like to pass on to others?

Lizzy ReesI think being open-minded to who you're communicating with and, um, the style that they might prefer. engaging with you. I'd be open-minded to that and I think seek being outside of your comfort zone as well. I think it's really normal for people, you know, millennials to gravitate towards millennials 'cause we have lots of shared experience and the same milestones, et cetera. I think it's really easy to, to stay in your lane, in your generation. Um. As a huge sport advocate, I would say, you know, go and try some activities or something unusual in life where you get to meet different people. I've had, you know, the privilege of being able to do that in sport from a very young age. Um, and it's just practice. You know, it's not, they're just people. It, it's really not that daunting. Once you just find some common ground, be open-minded and just have a chat with them and, and it will, it's a lot easier when you practice and just, just be open-minded to it.

Alastair GreenerI think that's a great lesson for life. Um, I really do. Uh, Lizzie, it's been such a joy talking to you. I love your perspective and I love your positivity. Um, you know how everything's so wonderful and, um, and hearing, hearing just this diversity of guests that I have on this show is, is so much fun because I get to learn a lot from different people and your perspectives from sport and university and everything else has been fantastic. Uh, we've got a couple of links in the show notes of if people want to, um, get a hold of you or whatever and see, find out more about you and more importantly, if they wanna find out more about Bath Spa University, um, then let's give them a bit of a plug as well along the way. Uh, but, but Lizzie, thank you very much indeed for joining us

Lizzy ReesThank you.

Alastair Greenerand thank you very much indeed for joining as well. We'll be back again in two weeks time. Uh, but in the meantime, thanks a lot. Bye for now. Speaker 3: The Alastair Greener Generationally Speaking podcast was presented by me, Alastair Greener. It was recorded at Granary Studios and produced by James Jones. Please follow us and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. To find out more, visit generationally speaking.co.uk.